Talk:American Alligator

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May 19, 2006 Featured article candidate Not promoted
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Contents

[edit] Comments

Daviodd, your most recent change puts these creatures in a different family than in the taxobox. Did you mean "family" informally? Or are there various classifications or what? Either way the article is now ambiguous. Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 14:35, 6 Mar 2004 (UTC)

A previous edition had begun to lump "diet" and "dangerousness of alligators" into "Anatomy", a practice that allows the great vice of rambling within one section. I chose to separate those aspects of alligators into sections.

The same edition overstated the danger that the American alligator poses to humans. A fatal allogator attack upon humans seems to happen about once every five years in Florida, which is surely far less than fatal dog attacks and especially snakebites. To be sure, dogs are far more common than are alligators even in Florida, but still, people wouldn't be moving into Florida if alligators posed the extreme danger that the saltwater and Nile crocodiles that certifiably hunt Man as prey. An alligator attack is to be avoided due to the severity of injuries, but so is a dog attack or especially a bite from a venomous snake. One fatal attack was to a girl who chose to protect her pet dog, the likely first object of the alligator's intention.

The rarity of fatal attacks by alligators in Florida indicates that alligators aren't hunting people as food. One case involved a girl protectinmngh Large alligators could hunt Man as prey; so could dogs, which also attack and kill animals larger than humans and are almost as unfussy eaters as alligators. "Extremely dangerous"? Not quite, unless one already has a stronger superlative for such creatures as bears, big cats, giant constrictor snakes, venomous creatures, and some sharks.

Alligator attacks have a statistically slight chance of happening to persons in Florida, the state with the highest concentration of alligators. Snakebites and even lightning strikes, let alone crime and motor vehicle accidents, are more likely killers than are alligators, which generally know well enough to leave humans alone. --66.231.38.97 19:06, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Albino Alligator

Would it be appropriate to start a new page for the albino alligator? Although its still an American Alligator, I think it is different enough to warrent a seperate page? Thoughts?

I dont think that a seperate page is needed but I have added a picture and some information here, although it could do with being expanded. --DSWebb 18:01, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

The American alligator has been a confirmed permanant resident of the Memphis, Tennessee area; therby, extending the previously recognized distribution range by a considerable amount. Would be interested in seeing an updated range map.

Also, an albino alligator page would be cool. I remember seeing an albino alligator at the Cincinnati Zoo; is it still there?

And one last thing that I think might be interesting, some discussion or information regarding alligators that exist far from their normal range; for instance, I know that there have been several alligators captured in the Cincinnati area; rumor has it that they migrated up the Ohio River and found warm micro-climates in the Ohio River distributaries, such as the Miami River, that have significant protection due to the large north to south oriented river hills in the region which act as baffles to cold winter winds. Apparently, these creatures have the ability to adapt and possibly make small reproducing pockets well outside of their normal range. I don't know if they would live in sewers though as the Ney York tales tell, probably too dirty and with the lack of sunlight the gators would surely suffer from a considerable vitamin D dificiency.

Thanks

[edit] Land speed

"...they have the ability to sprint for short distances at speeds of up to 30 miles/hour (48 km/h).[citation needed]"

That citation is in order indeed, as the statement is taking exaggeration to an absurd level, as no crocodilian can swim that fast! The greatest recorded land speed for any crocodilian is 17 km/h (10.6 mph) by an Australian Freshwater Crocodile. More on the subject here. --Anshelm '77 21:28, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Size & longevity

Size An article about the heaviest (1,043 lb/473 kg, length 13 ft 10½ in/4.23 m) Floridan specimen caught in the wild can be found here. You can find a mention here (end of page) of the longest measured specimen in Florida (14 ft 5/8 in or 428.3 cm). I don't know if this figures have been exceeded outside Florida, but I'd assume these specimen are a good representation of the true maximum size. The late great Superman, a captive specimen, was reportedly much heavier at 1,500 lb (680 kg, length 14 ft/4.3 m), but I'd like to see more accurate figures for this one – the weight seems too much like a rough estimate. At least I know it was once measured 13 ft 7½ in (4.15 m) long, while still alive.

I doubt that the claimed 19 ft 2 in (5.84 m) Louisianan individual (some details can be found here) is taken seriously among modern scientific community. Based on a few weighed and measured large specimen, I got a (rather variable) length/weight ratio of 3.4–6.2 kg/m3 (8.7 for "Superman"), which would suggest a weight within 1,500–2,700 lb (680–1,200 kg) range for this particular individual. This would be spectacularly large even for a Saltwater Crocodile, a significantly larger species on average.

Longevity The suggested lifespan of 30 years is rather coservative, as alligators have lived more than twice as long in captivity. Guinness World Records recognizes a 66 year-old female that died on September 26, 1978 in Adelaide Zoo, Australia. It was brought there at age 2 on June 5, 1914. An alligator named "Smiley" died in Gothenburg, Sweden on February 10, 1987 at age 65, after the heating of its pool had accidentally been turned off. --Anshelm '77 21:35, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Temperature of eggs

"The temperature at which alligator eggs develop determines their sex. Those eggs which are hatched in temperatures ranging from 90–93 °Fahrenheit (32.2–33.8 °C) turn out to be male, while those in temperatures from 82–86 °Fahrenheit (27.7–30 °C) end up being female. Intermediate temperature ranges have proven to yield a mix of both male and females."

This wording is ambiguous. Does this mean

  1. a male egg will only hatch at 90-93F, even though its gender was fixed at the time of fertilization; or
  2. you can influence the gender of a fertilized egg by forcing it to hatch at a given temperature?

Interpretation (2) seems hard to believe. However, if (1) is true, the first sentence should read

"The sex of an alligator determines the temperature at which its egg develops",

not the other way around. Mtford 22:19, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Range north and south

The discussion of northern range expansion is weak and should be excised. While the author has dressed up his effort with citations, they are all to newspaper citings of individual alligators. There is no citation to scientific work arguing or even speculating on northern expansion. Also, reading the articles, it is not at all clear that the alligator citings are from migration. It is speculated that they are from releases of wild alligators (which is surely the case for very similar articles/citings in New York, West Virginia, Northern Virginia, etc.) Moreover the discussion of "estuaries" is disjointed. The author never proves that this transformation to estuaries is happening. Never explains why it would benefit alligators (which are fresh water biased). And there is NO WAY that the Chattahoochie in northern GA, hundreds of feet above sea level, can be considered estuarian.

I am very interested in the subject of the extremities of alligator range. I suspect I'm similar to the previous author in wanting to see (and note) the alligator in an expanded norther range. However, the contributions are still poor. It would be better to put the northern expansion speculation at a blog.

P.s. The South Florida section seems to be messed up as well as there is discussion of impact on fish size, not alligators. It doesn't make clear written sense.

P.s.s. One interest that I have (and have not been able to get good info on, is the southern range ON THE TEXAS COAST. How is that defined (right at the border or north or south of the Rio Grande? Why is there such a border? Is it summer heat related? Is it dryness? Are there crocodiles near by coming up from Mexico?TCO 16:14, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

No response to my criticism of the (flawed) original research on northward migration, so I'm taking it out.TCO 11:46, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

--As I understand, alligator sightings are not at all that uncommon outside of Memphis, TN; why is TN, which is not too far out of mapped range, not mentionend as a host area for an animal that is known to be able to travel quite far? A simple internet search can produce cite worthy references to established alligator populations in TN (one existing population was in-fact introduced by U.S. Govt for control of other feral animals? -They thought the gators would eat the feral critters then die out but the gators apparently never died off-reproduced instead, now that's a great story right there.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.224.0.97 (talk) 15:55, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Quality Rating

This article is VERY close to a B rating, unfortunately there are a few things that need to be fixed. Namely, inline references need to be utilized, and the Attacks on people and Alligator safety reads like a how-to which Wikipedia is not. Making this changes will probably make the article B quality :). Jhall1468 04:01, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 18 feet (probably not)

In my High School biology textbook, it says that american alligators can reach 18 feet in length. I do not think that this is correct. Footballfan190 (talk) 04:40, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Standardizing measurements

The "Anatomy" section is a bit of a mess with the weights. There are three listed weights, every single one different--kg (lb), pounds (kg), and kg (lbs). While I imagine this is because the sources use different styles, shouldn't the wiki page be adapted for consistency? I would change all of them to kg (lbs) myself, but I actually don't know the answer to my just-stated question (it wasn't rhetorical). 76.99.52.46 (talk) 22:27, 7 May 2008 (UTC)