Talk:American Airlines Flight 587

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[edit] Type of Accident, Other Things, Questions

Should the type of accident field read "Adverse pilot coupling" (which the NTSB determined resulted in in-flight structural failure)? DFDR data shows rudder oscillation, not just deflection, on the order of five full-opposite deflections within seven seconds, including several which exceeded the rudder travel limiting unit, before the rudder data flat-lined and was assumed lost.

It is near inexplicable to me why an experienced flight crew would oscillate the rudder so quickly and so abruptly, but regardless, the rudder travel limiter unit should not permit an exceedance of maximum travel for that airspeed.

Maneuvering speed means a speed at which it is safe to make full or abrupt control deflections at or below.

Additionally, I'm moderately surprised that there is no mention of the significant questions raised by [usread.com] about this accident, or about the additional concerns that several pilot's associations have raised about this accident. There's been several other incidents (not accidents) with A300/A310 rudder and tail problems (most notably an A310 belonging to Transat lost a tail recently).

Conspiracy no...questions yes.

Just a few things...factual accuracy mostly not in dispute, but questions abound. DolphinCompSci 22:20, 6 May 2006 (UTC)


I would like to add a picture.....thanks...but i don't know how too....so can you people who work at wikipedia add one....thanks....bye...........................

[edit] Abderraouf Jdey

From that article: On November 12, 2001, he may have detonated a small bomb on American Airlines Flight 587 over Queens, New York. The incident was initially reported to have resulted from mechanical problems after takeoff. He is reported to have used a small bomb similar to the one used by convicted shoe-bomber Richard Reid.

Is that article wrong, or is this article missing pertinate information? Thanks, Func( t, c, @, ) 19:17, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

I think the Jdey article is a tad presumptious, and it should state that these are theories, not really "conspiracy theories" as such, but definitely not the official story either. So as your parents, and mine, told us for years...The truth is probably somewhere in between ;) Sherurcij (talk) (putting a story to the face, and a face to the name) 23:41, 4 January 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Investigation

It is recounted in a top secret Canadian Security Intelligence Service report written in May 2002 and made public on Aug. 27, 2004 by Stewart Bell in Canada's National Post.

· Its source is Mohammed Mansour Jabarah, a 22-year-old from St. Catharines, Ontario, said to be of "unknown reliability."

· Jabarah in turn is reporting on what he heard from Abu Abdelrahman (a Saudi Al-Qaeda member who worked for Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, one of the organization's highest ranking operatives). KSM's information has usually turned out to be reliable.

So, the information that follows is not exactly rock-hard, but it is a real lead.

And this is it: Abu Abdelrahman told Jabarah who told CSIS that

the 12 November 2001 plane crash (btb American Airlines flight 587) in Queens, New York was not an accident as reported in the press but was actually an AL QAIDA operation. Abu Abdelrahman informed Jabarah that Farouk the Tunisian conducted a suicide mission on the aeroplane using a shoe bomb of the type used by Richard Reid.... "Farouk the Tunisian" was identified from newspaper photographs as being identical to Abderraouf Jdey, a Canadian citizen who had resided in Montreal." Is there any information regarding the investigation on this incident?

That is nonsense. No such story was ever reported by the National Post. Search for yourself. – jaksmata 20:13, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Weasel words

"Some people believe that Flight 587 was a terrorist act covered up by the airline and the United States Government because the impact on US travel would have been severe. With it being so close to 9/11, and President George Bush saying himself it was safe to travel, it would have impacted the US economy heavily. Some believe the plane was hijacked and shot down by the US Government before it could be used to crash into another US landmark." Some people think these two sentences containing unsourced speculative statements should be removed from this article. DeweyQ 18:11, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Importance of BBC Coverage

"Due to the proximity to 9/11, the BBC once again stopped regular programming on BBC1 in favour of BBC News 24's coverage of the air crash. Normal programming was resumed once it was made clear this was not a terrorist action." Is there a reason why this is significant? Can we delete this?

[edit] Importance of Lottery Tickets

"New Jersey Lottery holds two Pick-3 lottery drawings per day, and on the day of the crash, the numbers selected for the evening drawing were 5-8-7. The afternoon drawing was 5-7-8. So many people chose the combination for the evening draw that the prize was $16 for each 'winner', whereas $275 is the typical straight bet payout for Pick-3[4]."

This as well. I visited the wikipedia website for information on this crash. And this is not relevant at all. Why don't they post sports scores along with the day's lottery drawings.

A reminder, please remember to "sign" your posts with four tildes "~~~~" so thtat we all know who said what. While I agree that it's very creepy, what's relevant about this is not that the numbers 5-8-7 and 5-7-8 came up, but that there were significant numbers of people who picked those numbers, and that there were so many winners that the payoffs were reduced. And we actually have a verifiable reliable source for this information. Weird? Yes. Heebie-jeebie inducing? Yes. Does it belong in this article? I say yes. Alansohn 18:42, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Heebie-jeebie inducing? Well, I politely disagree. If there are two drawings each day, then the odds are great that something during each day, in different areas, will involve those 3 digits. It's easy to say "Wow what a coincidence, freaky" But if you look closer and calcuate the probability, it's not. For example, yesterday, September 12, 2006, one of the numbers picked was "065." After doing a google news search, I noticed 65 people in Iraq were found murdered on the same day. Anyway, that just my opinion, if people want to keep that in this encyclopedia then so be. (and thank for the wiki etiquette tip)
These lottery drawings are always going to come up with a three-digit number by definition, and I agree that any three-digit number drawn is always going to match something. There is no significance to the ability to match the numbers drawn to some current event after the fact. What makes this significant is not that 5-8-7 and 5-7-8 came up, which is just a weird coincidence that is not newsworthy or encyclopedic. What is significant is that so many people deliberately chose the number 5-7-8 for these drawings after the crash, using the flight number as their choice for a winning number, which is what I find "Heebie-jeebie inducing". I don't think the Lottery discloses number preferences for non-winning numbers, but the fact that these numbers did come up brought this to public attention. Note: Use increasing numbers of colons to indent replies. Alansohn 18:42, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
So, you're saying it's significant that after the crash of Flight 5-8-7 lots of people chose 5-7-8 in the lottery? Maybe it means a lot of people are numerically dyslexic. 59.167.49.42 14:57, 7 June 2007 (UTC)Dave
No. One can "box" a set of numbers (see Parimutuel betting#Parimutuel bet types) which involves selecting a set of numbers that will win if any permutation of the three numbers selected is chosen as the winning number. The New Jersey Pick 3 standard payoff on a three-number box is $45.50, one-sixth of the $275.00 payout for a straight bet. I'm sure that there may have been a few dyslexics among the gamblers, but I think a more logical interpretation is that bettors had chosen the box option. Alansohn 15:06, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Other Airbus incidents/crashes

I’ve removed info in the Misc section on three apparently unrelated incidents. This article is about Flight 587, not about everything that’s ever happened to an Airbus. Other air incidents/crashes should be detailed in their own articles. If there is a pattern of Airbus crashes, that fact should probably be mentioned in its own article or on Airbus A300-600. Jaksmata 19:58, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mayol/Majol

I have seen both spellings, Mayol here and Majol at Snopes.com. Which is the proper spelling of her last name? Crisco 1492 16:39, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Terrorism fears

I remember that immediately after the crash there was a scare that this might have been a terrorist attack, with "9/11" still fresh in mind, however that was soon ruled out. Is this relevant for the introduction? —Preceding unsigned comment added by IIVQ (talk • contribs) 22:47, 21 October 2007 (UTC)