Talk:America
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found by christopher j. roberto —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.151.102.176 (talk) 02:22, 4 April 2008 (UTC) America was the name given to the New continent discovered by Columbus, after some years the name was taken by the USA because they couldn't take a name of their own. I think it is good that both options are open at wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.166.136.118 (talk) 19:21, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
America was the name given to the New continent discovered by Columbus, after some years the name was taken by the USA because they couldn't take a name of their own. I think it is good that both options are open at wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.166.136.118 (talk) 19:18, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
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[edit] Pointless Question Already Answered In A Recent Debate But Which Wikipedia Requires Me To Ask Anyway
Is the United States the most common usage of the term America. This is not an attempt to move or redirect this page. I thought we all agreed America most commonly refers to the US in the move/redirect now in archive two. However I am asking this again anyway because needs consensus for any moves, "should the United States" and not "The Americas" be on the top?
- In fact, more pointedly: Can anyone cite one published instance where the term America alone is used to mean the same thing as the Americas without further explanation (which excludes reference works)? The point of this question is to get at whether English speakers actually can and do understand America to refer to the Americas without any additional explanation. I'd like to see an example of that. --Tkynerd 14:54, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
- Well, "Columbus discovered America" returns 76000 gHits [1] and the first unambigious use of "America" to mean "the Americas" I get off JSTOR is here [Stable URL: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0361-5413%281990%2917%3C113%3ACFGTA%3E2.0.CO%3B2-2] Columbus from Guinea to America P. E. H. Hair History in Africa, Vol. 17 (1990) pp. 113 - 129
- Look, I detest the use of "America" to mean "the Americas" as much as the next guy (probably more) - but it is real. For what it's worth, I'd prefer to see the States listed first, the Americas listed second here as well. WilyD 15:09, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
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- Though published recently, isn't that a historic usage? (i.e. in reference to a historic voyage termed that way hundreds of years ago) Joie de Vivre 15:13, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
- Although I should be studying for my qualifier, I'm a nice guy so I dug up this: [2] Additional Neotropical Tremellales B. Lowy Mycologia, Vol. 67, No. 5. (Sep. - Oct., 1975), pp. 991-1000. and this: A Key to the Nymphs of the Families of Hemiptera (Heteroptera) of America North of Mexico Jon L. Herring; Peter D. Ashlock, The Florida Entomologist, Vol. 54, No. 3. (Sep., 1971), pp. 207-212. [3]
- For which one is this an example? It seems they wanted to say North America minus Mexico, but that would be too awkward... In any case, I'd also agree that the US reference should probably be on top. --Cheers, Komdori 15:41, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
- For which what is this an example? These are two examples of "America" used without explanation to mean "the Americas" in modern literature which avoid the suggested problem of Joie de Vivre that it might just be a preserved archaic usage. WilyD 15:55, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
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- Sorry, I wasn't sure if you meant the America North of Mexico as an example for it or not... I understand your point now, although I still suggest it's because the term "North America without Mexico" or "Continental US plus Alaska and Canada" sounds too awkward, not because they used America alone. The other example has other issues--even though it's Brazilian/Venezuelan in origin, they still qualify America not with the traditional North or South, but "tropical," as a way to clearly show it's not referring the US. --Cheers, Komdori 16:26, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
- I don't know that that's true. United States and Canada is hardly as awkward as "America North of Mexico" - I doubt Bermuda or Greenland really entered into it. And I think you're also wrong about the "tropical" qualifier. In the "America = United States" model, "Central America" = Costa Rica et al, "central America" = Nebraska et al, "South America" = Bolivia et al, "south America" = Alabama et al. It clearly thinks Venezuala and such are part of "America". WilyD 16:47, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
- I don't want to be seen as being overly picky, but it seems the authors did not use US and Canada since that might imply Hawaii, Puerto Rico, etc., and the article wants to focus on the region of North America sans Mexico. Since there are no "tropics" in the US, "tropical America" serves as qualifier enough; the word America doesn't appear anywhere without such qualifier. I'd be more comfortable with saying the word "America" is used in the English speaking word alone to refer to the Americas about as often as it is used to refer to the US if we could find even a few clear-cut cases, rather than the millions that were pointed out in the rm for the other usage ("God bless America", "America online," "Amercia the beautiful," or even "American flags," "American government," "American history," "American literature," etc.) --Cheers, Komdori 18:03, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
- I might add the corresponding "American" disambig page which suggests the equality of usage of American to mean "resident of the Americas" as "resident of the US" is at least as dubious as the suggestion that America is used for Americas as often as the US. --Cheers, Komdori 18:06, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
- The second point is definitely false. American = of the Americas is a more common usage (AFAIC) than America = the Americas is. The latter has obvious modern usages all over the place - Organization of American States - the Office of American Imperialism not the least among them. WilyD 18:15, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
- Hmm, you are probably right that there are many more cases of American meaning of the Americas than America meaning the Americas. In any case, my fault for bringing up something knid of off topic--I guess I should have brought it up over there; if people have thoughts on it, maybe they should check that article out, too. --Cheers, Komdori 18:57, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
- The second point is definitely false. American = of the Americas is a more common usage (AFAIC) than America = the Americas is. The latter has obvious modern usages all over the place - Organization of American States - the Office of American Imperialism not the least among them. WilyD 18:15, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
- I might add the corresponding "American" disambig page which suggests the equality of usage of American to mean "resident of the Americas" as "resident of the US" is at least as dubious as the suggestion that America is used for Americas as often as the US. --Cheers, Komdori 18:06, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
- I don't want to be seen as being overly picky, but it seems the authors did not use US and Canada since that might imply Hawaii, Puerto Rico, etc., and the article wants to focus on the region of North America sans Mexico. Since there are no "tropics" in the US, "tropical America" serves as qualifier enough; the word America doesn't appear anywhere without such qualifier. I'd be more comfortable with saying the word "America" is used in the English speaking word alone to refer to the Americas about as often as it is used to refer to the US if we could find even a few clear-cut cases, rather than the millions that were pointed out in the rm for the other usage ("God bless America", "America online," "Amercia the beautiful," or even "American flags," "American government," "American history," "American literature," etc.) --Cheers, Komdori 18:03, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
- I don't know that that's true. United States and Canada is hardly as awkward as "America North of Mexico" - I doubt Bermuda or Greenland really entered into it. And I think you're also wrong about the "tropical" qualifier. In the "America = United States" model, "Central America" = Costa Rica et al, "central America" = Nebraska et al, "South America" = Bolivia et al, "south America" = Alabama et al. It clearly thinks Venezuala and such are part of "America". WilyD 16:47, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
- Sorry, I wasn't sure if you meant the America North of Mexico as an example for it or not... I understand your point now, although I still suggest it's because the term "North America without Mexico" or "Continental US plus Alaska and Canada" sounds too awkward, not because they used America alone. The other example has other issues--even though it's Brazilian/Venezuelan in origin, they still qualify America not with the traditional North or South, but "tropical," as a way to clearly show it's not referring the US. --Cheers, Komdori 16:26, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
- Also, I think everyone should take a look at American History. BH (T|C) 16:10, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
- No worries - it's not particularly off topic - and a more global understanding is always worthwhile - in the end, don't worry quite so much about being on topic
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- For which what is this an example? These are two examples of "America" used without explanation to mean "the Americas" in modern literature which avoid the suggested problem of Joie de Vivre that it might just be a preserved archaic usage. WilyD 15:55, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
- For which one is this an example? It seems they wanted to say North America minus Mexico, but that would be too awkward... In any case, I'd also agree that the US reference should probably be on top. --Cheers, Komdori 15:41, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
- Although I should be studying for my qualifier, I'm a nice guy so I dug up this: [2] Additional Neotropical Tremellales B. Lowy Mycologia, Vol. 67, No. 5. (Sep. - Oct., 1975), pp. 991-1000. and this: A Key to the Nymphs of the Families of Hemiptera (Heteroptera) of America North of Mexico Jon L. Herring; Peter D. Ashlock, The Florida Entomologist, Vol. 54, No. 3. (Sep., 1971), pp. 207-212. [3]
- Though published recently, isn't that a historic usage? (i.e. in reference to a historic voyage termed that way hundreds of years ago) Joie de Vivre 15:13, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
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- I don't think specialized scientific usage qualifies for what I was looking for when I posted my question. This isn't an encyclopedia for specialists; it's for general readers. If someone can post an example of this usage in English in a publication intended for a general audience, that will be much more relevant. --Tkynerd 17:25, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
It seems to me the whole people proposing the United States to be on top for "America" are the US Americans themselves. Have you heard about Amerigo Vespucci? Sometimes it even seems like "North America" is for US Americans the US without Canada and most of Mexico. --Periergeia 10:22, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
- This definitely isn't the case. North America in it's most restrictive is Canada + America (and probably unstated but including Bermuda, St. Pete and Mickey and Greenland, provided the speaker knows they exist). And as a denizen of Soviet Canuckistan, I'd rather see related to America above related to the Americas - I just can't be bothered to care much. WilyD 13:10, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
The Monroe Doctrine has often been summarized as "America for the Americans". And it is clear that America means the whole continent in that phrase (what is sometimes debated is the intended meaning of "Americans" in the same phrase). Calin99 18:21, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
-- 82.123.140.167 12:02, 11 September 2007 (UTC) The term America refers to the United States in English languages only, and is not very NPOV; just a matter of tradition.
This is an English Website. Why would it not suit the reader to see United States when they type in America? This seems like pushing an agenda with a childish attack on very common colloquial speech. Anyone who speaks English uses the term "America" for the United States of America. Otherwise they would type in Canada or Mexico and such. Come on now. The very NPOV you attempt to address here is being reversed and becoming more NPOVish with this stupid argument.
America = United States in most people's speech. Enough said. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.187.250.74 (talk) 04:32, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Listing the two American continents
Joie de Vivre asked in that editor's last edit summary if listing the division of "the Americas" into North America and South America was necessary on this disambiguation page. I think that it is: as some users may not be familiar with the term Americas or with the use of America to describe both North America and South America. -Acjelen 14:30, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
- I think it's misleading without the inclusion of the alternate subdivision into North America, Central America, and South America (and sometimes the Carribean), so it probably should be left out. Perhaps the recently added Western hemisphere gives adequate context. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 14:37, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
- Hello. I agree with Acjelen. I also believe we should keep it as simple as possible, i.e., Western hemisphere, with just North and South America; otherwise, we open the floodgates to adding any number of other Americas to this entry. Quizimodo 16:19, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
- As I pointed out, I believe that adding North and South America "opens the floodgates". Western hemisphere seems adequate. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 17:19, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
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- North and South America are continents - and those are what is referred to together as the Americas. I believe they should--Keerllston 02:34, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
- I agree with Quizimodo and Acjelen that North and South America should be left in, as not everyone outside of North- and Southamerica knows what The Americas means. Central America could be added, but I'm not 100% sure, as it is not a continent on its own. --Mdebets (talk) 12:54, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] America is America
Typing in the word "America" should automatically send you to this page United States of America. What is up with the Americas and all that other stuff? If they type in "Americas" then that one can go the continent, but America is America. I've never heard anyone in English saying "I'm from America" if they are not from the US. Please make the neccessary arrangements so that Wikipedians may find what they're looking for faster and easier. Thank you, (209.7.171.66 15:33, 16 August 2007 (UTC))
- I'm from Mexico, wich is in America, the continent.--81.37.148.27 14:31, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
- That's not the point. The point is whether fluent English speakers would ever say "I'm from America," and ever mean anything other than "I'm from the United States." For a fluent English speaker, "America" without any further qualification, DOES equal the United States.65.77.101.63 (talk) 22:04, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
- No, that's the point, the word "America" is not only used in that stupid sentence "I am from America", that's why a regular U.S. citizen perhaps thinks... America is a continent, that's why there are 5 circles in the Olimpics game logo morons... Because there are 5 continents, one of them named America. If you want to say that you are from the U.S. say it like that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.196.126.189 (talk) 23:21, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
- That's not the point. The point is whether fluent English speakers would ever say "I'm from America," and ever mean anything other than "I'm from the United States." For a fluent English speaker, "America" without any further qualification, DOES equal the United States.65.77.101.63 (talk) 22:04, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
- Two Words- "I agree" New England Review Me! 15:39, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
- "America is America" is a statement both sides could make. How would I know if the anonymous user meant the United States or meant North and South America when he or she stated "America is America"? I half suspected someone asking for Americas to be a redirect and that article here, but I see it is the counter position. All the more reason in my mind to keep the status quo. -Acjelen 18:15, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
- "America is America" is a statement both sides could make. But in English, only one of them would be right. In English, "America" in the singular unambiguously refers to the USA. Even though dictionaries offer "the Americas" as an alternative definition of "America," I am fairly widely read in English and I have never seen "America" used that way in English (although see the thread above where I ask for a published example -- but then, see my comments in that thread as well). The English Wikipedia should reflect actual English usage, not what some people think English usage ought to be. At the absolute very least, the "USA" meaning should be first on this dab page. --Tkynerd 00:27, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
- you should read this article WP:BIAS 200.74.80.18 17:49, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
- "America is America" is a statement both sides could make. But in English, only one of them would be right. In English, "America" in the singular unambiguously refers to the USA. Even though dictionaries offer "the Americas" as an alternative definition of "America," I am fairly widely read in English and I have never seen "America" used that way in English (although see the thread above where I ask for a published example -- but then, see my comments in that thread as well). The English Wikipedia should reflect actual English usage, not what some people think English usage ought to be. At the absolute very least, the "USA" meaning should be first on this dab page. --Tkynerd 00:27, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
You waste your time. This same discussion was made several times. This article will be left unchanged in the end. Oh, and I personally disagree with the America is USA thing. --Shadowy Crafter 00:27, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
- If it is brought up several times, that should show you that there is something wrong with it. If you are a native English speaker, you know what "America" is. And this Wikipedia is written for English speakers so put 1 and 1 together, and please make the neccessary changes. (74.134.127.92 00:05, 29 August 2007 (UTC))
- Maybe the fact that this is being discussed should show you that something is wrong with your assumption that America is USA. I may agree that most English speakers think in US when they read/hear the word America but, as somebody wrote earlier, America is America, and its north, south, and central areas are (respectively) North America, South America, and Central America. Calin99 14:45, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
- The United States of America are only The united states of America, its not America. America is North and South America together. Can you be more selfcentered? Chandlertalk 10:29, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
- That's the way to talk, dude. Xhandler --190.40.72.137 01:25, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
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- I'm English & I'm not slow to complain about the American bias of Wikipedia.
- Wait! Did you see what I did there? I meant US, didn't I? But because I'm speaking English I didn't need to explain.
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- An article I read today: [4] It interested me because it shows just how natural it is for (native) English speakers to use America meaning US. Eg US is used 4 times & America 23 times.
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- This says to me that this debate is political & not about NPOV.
- Dyaimz 22:03, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
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- I asked about this matter to 3 of my university teachers: My political science teacher, my history teacher and my philosophy teacher. They ALL agree that calling "America" to the USA is wrong. And I agree with them. America is America. And America is the ENTIRE western hemisphere.--Shadowy Crafter 16:12, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
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- It really seems that there are certain people in the Wikipedia community who don't have a clear understanding of English. The Americas refers to the continent, but in singular, the word America is shorthand for the US. Please let's not make this an issue of where you live, or what you would like the page to be. On a pure factual basis, in the English language, America only refers to the US. This is universally accepted by all major media, including CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, BBC, Deutsche Welle, TV5, TV Africa etc. Many of these networks are based in different countries, but they all have programs in English and they all use America interchangably with the United States. Please consider it without a bias. Thank you, (209.7.171.66 21:47, 25 October 2007 (UTC))
- I think that when people say "Columbus discovered America", they do not mean "Columbus discovered USA", they really mean whole continent. Or "The American continent", it does not mean to USA. I really wonder why US people call USA to America and how this began. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.148.100.50 (talk) 09:25, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
- It really seems that there are certain people in the Wikipedia community who don't have a clear understanding of English. The Americas refers to the continent, but in singular, the word America is shorthand for the US. Please let's not make this an issue of where you live, or what you would like the page to be. On a pure factual basis, in the English language, America only refers to the US. This is universally accepted by all major media, including CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, BBC, Deutsche Welle, TV5, TV Africa etc. Many of these networks are based in different countries, but they all have programs in English and they all use America interchangably with the United States. Please consider it without a bias. Thank you, (209.7.171.66 21:47, 25 October 2007 (UTC))
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- Well, it's not quite the case that "America" in English refers only to the English-speaking areas south of Canada. After all, Columbus "discovered America", didn't he? However, I agree with your basic point, since in almost any other context I can think of, "America" is not ambiguous. I don't really understand why "The United States of America, a country in the Americas" is listed second on this dab page, since it is clearly the dominant usage. However, it doesn't seem terribly important, either.—Nat Krause(Talk!·What have I done?) 15:59, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
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[edit] America the Continent
America was considered one continent. Before the Panama Canal the Americas, North America and South America, were actually just "America" - If you look at the naming of the Country - you'll see an alternative was calling it the "United States of Columbia" - Which also refers to the continent discovered by Columbus or Vespucci.--Keerllston 18:27, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Email opinion : in Costa Rica, America doesn't mean US
Here's an email from someone who believes strongly that "America" should not be construed as [globally] referring to the US. I've encouraged him to respond here directly.
> Hi Wiki... > > While looking for America, i encounter this: > > "Use of the term America may be ambiguous, as it can > refer to either this entire landmass or just the > United States of America." - > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas > > I do not agree with that since, i live in Costa Rica - > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_rica - Wich is a > Country in central America. and here in my country and > most of the rest of America Excluding the U.S.A and > CANADA, we call america as a CONTINENT not a country. > > Please can you change a part of that paragraph, since > not all ppl consider America as a Country... > > indeed its important to us to remeber and know AMERICA > just as a continent, giving the term the flexibility > to also refer to U.S.A, is to desacredit the others > nations living in the continent. > > so please i will fell happier if you could change that > part of the article to: > > "Use of the term America may be ambiguous, as it can > refer to either this entire landmass" > > it will give to all of us, residents of AMERICA more > neutrality :D > > THX
[edit] "Pronounciation"
You must include the proper IPA:pronounciation of "America" in your Articles including that/and "Ah"-merica pertains to it's Continent and/that "A"-merica pertains to the "U.S.A." Intuitionz 01:17, 21 September 2007 (UTC) Что не понимаете?? ну и я вас тоже —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.186.171.6 (talk) 13:25, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
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- Also, The Americas are "in" the Western hemisphere and not "of". Intuitionz (talk) 03:48, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
america is my one of the best country thankyou —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.201.83.188 (talk) 10:00, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
