Talk:Altered scale
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[edit] Jazz scale
I've always seen this referred to simply as "the jazz scale" (though, admittedly, it's not the only scale I've seen referred to as "the" jazz scale). -- Jim Regan 00:40, 7 May 2004 (UTC)
- See jazz scale. Hyacinth 07:22, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Enharmonic
In the last example you need to start and finish with B# and not C...
- Please sign your posts on talk pages per Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages. Thanks! Hyacinth 07:22, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Super Locrian? Entire article sounds like misinformation.
"Another way to look at the altered scale is that it is identical to the seventh musical mode of the ascending melodic minor scale, a mode which is sometimes referred to as Super Locrian."
What is described at the beginning of this article is a normal locrian mode. The first example is of a properly spelled C locrian scale (whose key signature would be that of Db major.) The second example is just plain incorrect. Assuming the scale is based on B, it has no tonic, but rather a "natural II". Assuming it were based on B#, it would be slightly closer to an altered dominant in the sense of a super locrian or diminished-whole-tone scale... but has another wrong raised tonic instead of a flat and sharp II as the second two notes.
While the quoted statement regarding the construction of a super-locrian scale is enharmonically correct, in its normal use in jazz as an altered dominant, the scale would actually contain the root of the dominant (scale degree ^5) followed by a flat and sharp 9 (Db, D#) -- an example of a super locrian functioning as an altered dominant in the key of F. A flat third would have a different function, making the outlined chord minor with a flat 9, and bizzare diminished 4th, and diminished 5th. It might sometimes be spelled this way to be easier to read... but is otherwise theoretically incorrect.
I have never actually come across someone using the term "altered scale" in this manner in either jazz or classical analysis. From what I gather from the Alternate_chord article, this scale is supposed to be the foundation of a tritone sub, or some other chromatically descending substitute for a dominant in a ii-V-I. I don't understand from this article how thats possible unless this has some use in classical western repertoire, which I've never seen, as such usage would normally be considered either linear harmony, or non-functional, rather than a dominant substitution. Otherwise I must assume that this really only happens in this function in jazz/pop styles, in which it most frequently functions to outline an alternate dominant.
Ormaaj (talk) 17:49, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
- I guess normal locrian wouldn't have a F flat but rather a F natural. The example is correct in that it shows the seventh mode of the melodic minor scale. Furthermore, the term is widely in use in jazz theory books, for instance the very popular duo "jazz piano book" and the "jazz theory book" from Mark Levine (#1 on amazon.com for jazz theory, I believe).--Dkcycovery (talk) 05:31, 30 May 2008 (UTC)