Talk:Alqosh

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Contents

[edit] 'Notre-Dame des Semences'

Note that handbooks of manuscript literature habitually refer to the monastery of Rabban Hormizd at Alqosh as "Notre-Dame des Semences." This is probably because most Chaldean Syriac literature was catalogued by Addai Scher, who published his material in French. For scholars to find this page, therefore, it must have some material in this name.

BGN native name: Alqōsh; variants: Algōsh; Al Qush
--Cam 05:36, 12 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Spelling The Name of The Village

It is ridicules having two different spellings for our village. We need to settle on a single form of spelling for Alqush. This article contains many variations that need to be fixed. Therefore, we need to make a vote on a standard spelling that can be a standard.

I say we go with Alqush.

Karam Bollis 23:22, 19 May 2007 (UTC) Karam Bollis

I've always seen Alqosh and never Alqush. — Gareth Hughes 00:06, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
And google agree's with this in a 10 to 1 ratio. Chaldean 00:20, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Alright, thank you for the replies. Also, thank you Chaldean for the Google search numbers, that's pretty smart. I'll change it accordingly soon, unless someone will change it before me. Karam Bollis 06:06, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] People of Alqosh are Chaldean

Here is a link in Arabic stating the people of Alqosh are Chaldeans. Just thought I would post it and share it with the few others that think otherwise.

http://www.alqosh.net/000.htm

Translated using Google -

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alqosh.net%2F000.htm&langpair=ar%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

Another source I found (in English), search the page for the word 'Chaldean' and you will see -

http://www.betnahrain.net/AssyriaLand/1alqosh.htm#ae

Also it's 45 Km from Mousl not 30 like the article stats as of right now. Karam Bollis 06:07, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Please see your talk page, nobody is argueing that Alqosh is a Chaldean-rite town. But its people heavely identify themselves as Assyrians. Chaldean 15:39, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm from Alqosh and I don't identify myself as Assyrian. Also, asked all my friends and sorry no one of them identify themselves as Assyrian. Also, you seem to be the only one who is identifying it as an Assyrian town. Looking at the page's edit history, so many people have changed it to say Chaldean but it was always you who changed it back to say Assyrian. The source you provided on my talk page is useless. Please stop being stubborn, accept the facts. I'm from Alqosh, you're not. Karam Bollis 16:11, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Khoun, the fact that you asked "all your friends" does not imply that you have the consensus of all Alqoshnayeh, and neither does the fact that you, yourself, are from Alqosh. I suggest that you (or anybody, for that matter) find data from a recent government-run census (if such thing exists) on the village of Alqosh, with respects to how the Alqoshnayeh identify themselves. Otherwise, it should be clearly stated that the inhabitants are from the Chaldean Catholic Church, and not ethnically Chaldean, since Chaldean is a religious term rather than an ethnic term, as stated by the late patriarch of the Chaldean Catholic Church, Mar Raphael Bidawid I. --Šarukinu 22:58, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm also from alqosh and we alqoshnaye all identify ourselves as Chaldeans, in terms of religion but also ethnically. Just because a patriarch stated something doesn't mean he speaks for all of us. So please respect our origins as we respect yours. 62.58.16.61 12:08 25 May 2007 (UTC)
I respect your opinion. But the same could go for yourself: the fact that you identify yourself as Chaldean, doesn't mean you speak for all 60,000 Alqoshnaye. The difference with the late patriarch is that he was certainly an authority, one who was educated about our origins - I didn't say that he spoke for all Alqoshnaye. We need a census, a survey of all Alqoshnaye, with a large enough sample size, in terms of how they identify themselves. Without that, nobody can claim that ALL Alqoshnaye define themselves as Assyrian or Chaldean. --Šarukinu 16:12, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Until you Šarukinu or Chaldean provide the census then it should stay Chaldean, according to the sources I provided. Beside the sources I provided, look at the page history, everyone is been trying to write Chaldean but it was always Chaldean who edited it. Seriously, grow up. Karam Bollis 16:20, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Well I figured that you would have access to such information, seeing as you're from Alqosh. Perhaps you can contact some family or friends still living in Alqosh and find out? --Šarukinu 22:59, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

You two can complain all you want, the fact of the matter is Wikipedia should only provide facts that people from the deaspora don't have a right to change. [these are the Real Alqoshnaye] - the ones that are actually living in Alqosh today, not you guys living in Sweden or Detroit or Australia. Do you see what flag they are holding? End of discussion. Chaldean 17:24, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

And where do you live? Don't you live in the States? Detroit? Don't you mean Michigan? You are probably an ignorant welfare living 30 years old who sits at his computer chatting and arguing over the internet instead of being productive to society. Get a life... We are Chaldean... Karam Bollis 17:36, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Now you have crossed the line and have lost total credibility. You inaccurate edits will continuously be reverted back. Please refrain from personal attacks in the future - see Wikipedia:No personal attacks. Chaldean 20:33, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
We Alqoshnaye don't like to be offended by our origins, so you so called "Chaldean" (Assyrian is what you really are) you better get a life or eat your heart out cause I will be changing everything to Chaldean the way it's meant to be. I'm getting really sick and tired of this "We are all Assyrians" crap. YOU, you are not a whole population. Just because your friends feel the same way as you doesn't give you the right to dishonor us Chaldeans. So get ready for some reverts, I won't stop. 62.58.16.61 10:10 01 June 2007 (UTC)

Third Opinion Simple. If a reliable source per WP:RS can be found (not just "a link") to assert that these people are Chaldean rather than Assyrian, it should be changed. Something that should be made clear is the nature of the Chaldean people.

  1. Are they the Assyrians in the same way the Batavians are (supposed to be) the Dutch? In this case, it would be appropriate to call the group Assyrians as it is the more modern name.
  2. Or are they a subgroup commonly associated by reliable sources with the Assyrians, like the Frisians are commonly associated with the Dutch? In this case, both major group (Assyrians) and subgroup, if notable, should be named.
  3. Or do they differ in religion only (that Chaldean church I keep reading about), and are in fact of the same people as the Assyrians, like the Dutch Reformed and Dutch Catholic?

Please clear this up. A Google search for "site:.edu" and/or "filetype:pdf" usually returns more reliable sources. --User:Krator (t c) 00:47, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Krator, to clarify this issue, the people of the Assyrian Church of the East (also incorrectly known as the Nestorian church) and the people of the Chaldean Catholic Church identified themselves the same way up until about 500 years ago when a huge fraction of the followers of the former branched off in communion with Rome to form the latter. These are the same people, just more recently superficially divided along religious lines - nobody can argue with that.

What the people of Alqosh identify themselves as, that's a totally different question. It's not a matter of historical fact (which many people seem to ignore in this case), but rather a matter of the current state of things. That's why I suggested that somebody find some official data from a survey or census taken in Alqosh. Nobody can speak for these people but themselves (which EXCLUDES those in the diaspora). Anybody can come along and say they're from Alqosh to assert their legitimacy on this issue, and nobody would be the wiser. As long as random people who claim to be from Alqosh attempt to make edits, the respective edits will be reverted back.

If you people, whoever you are, wish to change everything in this article to "Chaldean" in stead of "Assyrian", provide some reliable sources, and don't expect everybody to believe your testimony just because you claim to be from Alqosh. This is not how it's done. As for what these people truly are, the truth lies in their history.--Šarukinu 06:15, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
I still don't get it. What I get from the above is "yes, it's a different group" - I knew that. Please simplify it for me in the form of a clear example, like one two and three above. --User:Krator (t c) 14:09, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
It is the number 3. I have given 3 sources of this on the Chaldean page - these are reliable and neutral sources. Its a religious splite, but some in the diaspora (like the anonimous from the Netherlands that is reverting) like to exploite it and claim it to be a totally different ethnicity; when in reality no nation in this world recognizes that as proven with census done throughout the world (see Assyrian diaspora). Chaldean 14:14, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
I never said they're different groups, Krator. I said they're superficially divided along religious lines - still the same people. Sorry, I was trying to explain number 3 :) --Šarukinu 04:29, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 3RR

Hello guys I just wanted to tell you that there is some thing in Wikipedia called Wikipedia:Three-revert rule.Thanks--Aziz1005 02:47, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Protection

New and unregistered users will be temporarily unable to edit this article. I hope this stops the back-and-forth editing. Established users will not be prevented from editing. — Gareth Hughes 14:33, 18 July 2007 (UTC)