Talk:Alphorn
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[edit] Cor Anglais? I think not!
Some of this article seems inaccurate. The alpenhorn is nothing like the "cor anglais" or english horn which is more or less an alto oboe. I believe the author of this article is referring to the french horn more commonly known as just the horn. The horn and the alpenhorn are both conical brass instrument that produce similar sounds. Brahms in his first symphony has a section which is said to be inspired by alphorn players in the alps themselves. This melody is played on the natural horn in the orchestra to produce the desired effect. I'll look up the references from the article when I get the chance to see what exactly the author is referring to.
Horndude77
Thanks for the Rewrite!
I note that the article has been rewritten and much improved. I do appreciate the effort. I will make a few other comments as I have some knowledge of the Alphorn: I teach at the Swiss Alphorn School in Gstaad, Switzerland.
First of all, the instrument is called simply the "Alphorn" by the Swiss, who are the people who originated the instrument and who consider it their national instrument. The title of the article should be "Alphorn" and inquiries about the "Alpenhorn" (whatever that is!) should be redirected to "Alphorn". The issue of the proper name for the instrument is important and needs to be addressed.
The length of the Alphorn is defined in Swiss folklore as "the length of two men". Most Alphorns in Switzerland are approximately 11 - 1/2 feet long, which puts them in the key of F#. Because the Alphorn is increasing being performed with other instruments (such as organ, brass groups, and even symphony orchestras), and the key of F# is rightly seen as a problematic key, the Alphorn is evolving toward the key of F-natural (approximately 12 - 1/2 feet long) in many places, particularly in North America. As the author of the original article points out, the historical instruments were much shorter, and this evolution toward a longer Alphorn is the continuation of a trend.
William Hopson, Rocky Mountain Alphorns Calgary, Alberta, Canada Email: hopson@alphorn.ca
[edit] Dispute tag
The issues raised above seem to have been addressed. I'm going to remove the Dipsute tag. -Willmcw 01:24, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)
- Now it just needs major clean up. I have hard time following the paragraphs because of incomplete sentences and other details. I don't know the melody Ranz des Vaches. It would be nice to see it written out or hear it in order to fix the later sentences. Did Rossini put it right in an opera? which one? Did Brahms use it for the horn part in his first symphony? or was it just the alphorn in general that he was trying to mimic? Also it needs some wikification. I'll help out where I can. Other than those issues I would generally agree that the accuracy of the article is better than before. (a side question: when do we remove the Encyclopædia Britannica notice? How can I look at the original article to see if this one has changed enough to remove the notice?). Thanks! Horndude77 04:19, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Back to you from William Hopson, and again, thanks again for the editing.
There are several recordings of "Ranz de Vache" available. See the linked websites (including mine) for more information.
I've been told that Rossini's original opera "William Tell" does include Alphorn music, but I can't confirm this. The opera is rarely played in its entirely in modern times and we mostly know it from the overture. Certainly the English Horn melody in the Pastoral section of the overture works well on Alphorn. Rossini was a student of the orchestral Horn in his early years, which accounts for why he wrote so well for the instrument. It is my personal belief that he must have been thinking of the Alphorn when he wrote the melody, but I cannot imagine that there were any Alphorn players in Rossini's time that could play the melody with the precision required for orchestral playing.
Brahms certainly used an Alphorn melody from the Rigi in his first symphony, but he never expected that anyone would ever actually play the melody on the Alphorn. To begin with, the melody is not in a key that Alphorns generally play in, and again, the quality of the Alphorn playing at that time would have been an issue for Brahms. I am sure that Brahms had in mind only an orchestral setting of a beautiful Alphorn melody that he had heard. As a composer, Brahms was notoriously scrupulous with all of his orchestrations, and what he wrote is exactly what he wanted. For me - after so many years of playing in a symphony orchestra - this section of music is still one of the grandest moments in music.
[edit] Naming
This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. There wasn't much discussion, though I agree with the move based on the Google Test. violet/riga (t) 22:16, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- Sorry about that, on closer inspection I see it was two comments by the same person. Thanks for doing the administrative work. Cheers, -Willmcw 01:24, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)
