Talk:Alpha and Omega
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[edit] "Omega and Chaos"
In a certain mythology not known as of yet... omega and chaos are believed to be spirits of the Earth. Omega being the "protector" or "guardian" of Earth, and chaos being the "armageddon" or "end" of Earth. Supposodely when chaos and desolence is about the Earth or is bought forth upoun the Earth Omega is awakened to balance out the excess...
And vice versa is omega awakens with the goal of sending the planet to the "stars" chaos comes to balance out the excess... so there isn't really a bad guy in this situation...
- Whatever -- this has precisely nothing to do with the topic of "Alpha and Omega (Christianity)". Go to Alpha and Omega (disambiguation) and see if anything there is relevant (if you can document your assertions, of course...) AnonMoos 00:33, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
- Omega is NOT "protector" NOR "guardian" of Earth, because Sampi instead really bears this function. Remember that Greek alphabet has over 30 letters. 91.94.153.30 (talk) 16:34, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Alpha and Sampi
Full global Greek alphabet is as follows:
It begins with Alpha, and ends with Sampi. That means that Omega in this case is not final letter, because after Omega is placed too Sampi. Due to this fact, in this case God is not only local Ionian Alpha and Omega, because He is in this case too Somebody more - global Pan-Greek Alpha and Sampi. This fact should be acknowledged by all Christians that uses global Greek Alphabet, because in this case they can diminish God by excluding Him from full range of global Greek Alphabet. Ionians were justified by their unknowledge, and Jesus only adjusted Himself to their lower level of knowledge, calling Himself as local Ionian Beginning and End. Sho was placed between San and Qoppa and was only existing Greek letter not used by Greeks, but by Bactrians that adopted Greek alphabet. Comparison page is here. Wikinger 13:12, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, but "Sampi" was a kludge whereby a corrupt form of an archaic letter (formerly between Pi and Qoppa) was dragged in so that there would be 27 distinct symbols for the purposes of Isopsephy, while Sho was used in Central Asia to transcribe non-Greek languages. Neither of these symbols was ever used as a letter to write the Greek Koine language (which is the only thing which is relevant for the Bible). AnonMoos 18:23, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
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- Thus that would mean that Sampi was corrupted version of San, that is placed between Pi and Qoppa. Wikinger 13:35, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
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- Probably it was (though there is still some debate over the matter). But regardless of its origin, it still was never used as a letter to write the Greek Koine language (which is the only thing that's relevant for this article). AnonMoos 15:02, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
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- Because T-shaped alphabetic Sampi was introduced recently to Wikipedia, I think that it is in T-shape not corrupted, but fully fledged letter. For proof look into Sampi article to compare alphabetic T-Sampi and numeric C-Sampi. As you see, T-Sampi is more like russian П and too Greek PI, with addition of |, while C-Sampi is more like russian Э and too Greek LUNATE EPSILON, with addition of -. In this way T-Sampi should be primary, and C-Sampi secondary. CBMIBM (talk) 16:44, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
- It's a fully-fledged numerical symbol, but it wasn't a "letter", and it's not relevant to this article. AnonMoos (talk) 22:23, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
- T-shaped Sampi was really alphabetic letter with ss value, what is stated even in Greek alphabet article in obsolete letter section, but C-shaped Sampi is mainly numerical symbol derived from previous alphabetic symbol. CBMIBM (talk) 08:48, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
- In other words, it was probably a medieval manuscript ligature (disigma, or sigma-sigma) identified at a late period with an archaic numerical symbol (sampi) -- as was exactly the case with the medieval manuscript ligature stigma (sigma-tau) identified at a late period with an archaic numerical symbol (digamma). However, the New Testament period chronologically preceded the period when ligatures of this type came to be commonly used in Greek writing, and Sampi is still not relevant to this article... AnonMoos (talk) 11:47, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
- But Digamma, Stigma, Heta, San, Sho, Qoppa and Sampi really once were letters with values [w], [st], [h], [s], [ʃ], [q] and [s:]. Even Ilion was earlier written as Wilion, thus these symbols originally were LETTERS, and later became digits only, when their original letter role was forgotten. CBMIBM (talk) 17:05, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
- In other words, it was probably a medieval manuscript ligature (disigma, or sigma-sigma) identified at a late period with an archaic numerical symbol (sampi) -- as was exactly the case with the medieval manuscript ligature stigma (sigma-tau) identified at a late period with an archaic numerical symbol (digamma). However, the New Testament period chronologically preceded the period when ligatures of this type came to be commonly used in Greek writing, and Sampi is still not relevant to this article... AnonMoos (talk) 11:47, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
- T-shaped Sampi was really alphabetic letter with ss value, what is stated even in Greek alphabet article in obsolete letter section, but C-shaped Sampi is mainly numerical symbol derived from previous alphabetic symbol. CBMIBM (talk) 08:48, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
- It's a fully-fledged numerical symbol, but it wasn't a "letter", and it's not relevant to this article. AnonMoos (talk) 22:23, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
- Because T-shaped alphabetic Sampi was introduced recently to Wikipedia, I think that it is in T-shape not corrupted, but fully fledged letter. For proof look into Sampi article to compare alphabetic T-Sampi and numeric C-Sampi. As you see, T-Sampi is more like russian П and too Greek PI, with addition of |, while C-Sampi is more like russian Э and too Greek LUNATE EPSILON, with addition of -. In this way T-Sampi should be primary, and C-Sampi secondary. CBMIBM (talk) 16:44, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
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- Digamma, Qoppa, and San were once letters of certain varieties of the early ancient Greek alphabet, but they were very little used AS LETTERS (as opposed to numerical symbols) after Koine Greek written in the Ionic variety of the Greek alphabet became the widespread written standard among Greek-speakers ca. 300 B.C.
- Heta is just another name for exactly the same letter as Eta (when used to write an [h] consonant sound instead of an [ê] vowel). Heta and Eta are not separate letters, just different uses of one letter.
- Sho was used in Central Asia to transcribe non-Greek languages (as explained above), and so is utterly irrelevant to the original Greek alphabet as used to write the Greek language.
- Stigma was a medieval ligature which developed in the medieval period, long after New Testament times (and so is irrelevant to this article), and was identified in the medieval period with the old numerical symbol digamma. It was never a letter as such.
- Sampi was a kludged-up numerical symbol (probably originally partly based on the archaic letter San) which was devised to fit the vacant 27th slot in the system of alphabetic number-writing. It was never a letter as such.
- Conclusion: None of this is relevant to article Alpha and Omega. AnonMoos (talk) 01:44, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
By the way, Wikinger, with regard to your recent edit summary on Alpha and Omega (disambiguation), there isn't any "30-letter Greek alphabet" -- that's something you seem to have cobbled together yourself, by taking the 27 numerical symbols as your basis (instead of the 24 actual letters), and adding in some disparate odds and ends from various places... AnonMoos (talk) 02:43, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
- My Image:Greek alphabet extended.png is in reality a complete grab-bag of all Greek Unicode letters and variants called as such in official Unicode charts. CBMIBM (talk) 17:49, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
