Talk:Almeda University

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Almeda University article.
Article policies

Contents

[edit] NPOV tag

I've updated and cleaned up this article. Accrediation issues and tone of the article has been balanced like the person below did back in September. Online Schools like Almeda University, University of Phoenix and others have been getting a bad rap(my opinion) due to it's non-traditional conformity with other colleges and universities.--bobbyd January 2007.

I've done some cleanup on this article. While the accreditation issue must be handled, the tone of the article and the balance of discussion has to be evened out. I don't know much about the university, and don't know where to start, but while an honest article is in order, it can't be a smear job, either. --badlydrawnjeff talk 20:18, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Is this a school? Does that claim meet WP:V? As for now it doesn't look like it. Arbusto 08:26, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Veronica678 18:00, 30 September 2006 (UTC)The part about the dog should be removed. If a person filled out an application using a fake (dog's) name, the content of the application must have been also falsified with enough detail to pass the equivalency meter. The problem is that if someone did complete the application with enough fake personal details to be awarded the Almeda degree, with the sole intent of discrediting Almeda, then it violates several laws including fraud and entrapment. All Almeda applications require that the applicant sign electronically that they are at least 18 years of age and all information contained within their application is true and correct. Also, the dog story was not created by a news team investigation, but was an uncorroborated story told to the news – which they then chose to print without verifying the details. This is akin to sending a friend with your birth certificate in to take your drivers license test for you and then bashing the Department of Motor Vehicles for issuing you a driver’s license when you can't drive.

Do not remove cited material.[1][2]
Do you have any links that any accredited schools have awarded a dog a degree? You analogy doesn't work and it WP:OR. Arbusto 18:07, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

If you are going to quote the article without requiring any validity or corroboration, at least quote it accurately. Your out-of-context quote is misleading. It isn't Wally that teaches kids responsibilities, it's Wally's owner. See my correction. —the preceding comment is by Veronica678 - 21:43, 30 September 2006: Please sign your posts!

From the article, I think it's pretty clear that it's Wally's life experience that is being described. I'm changing your phrasing to make that more clear. William Pietri 16:23, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

(I've moved this from the POV section as it seems to me fairly balanced and from various sources - some sugar to balance the sourness of this discussion) Janeybee 21:12, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure you can blame a university for people lying on the application form, can you? I could have lied plenty on my Open University Masters degree but common decency dictates that one doesn't. I think it's high time there were more of these life experience universities, to break down the old snobbery about academic/book learning being so much better than any life experience. In terms of how Almeda University stands up against some of these criticisms, well all universities attempt to be profit-making. They aren't there for the good of their own health!There are plenty of positive comments if you look for them. I'm new to Wikipedia so I don't know if it's legitimate to quote other sources, but I have referenced them so people can check them out:

"We are confident that Almeda University is a Credible school. Almeda University has gone the extra lengths in student privacy and security." http://www.degreeadvice.com/almedauniversity/index.html

"Almeda University is a young exciting company formed in 1997. It offers a wide range of Associate, Bachelor’s, and Master’s degrees in a variety of fields including business and most technical fields as well as the arts and sciences. It is accredited by AOAEX (the Association for Online Academic Excellence) which is a private accrediting agency that ensures online distance learning programs are credible. Almeda’s virtual campus is a learning community that is alive with high technology, educational innovation, and personal enrichment." http://www.onlineeducationfacts.com/online-education-facts/almeda.htm

"DegreeAdvice.com: Down the Beaten Path Currently, government officials have launched an unprovoked attack against online universities and colleges, calling them “degree-mills”, because of their mix of both knowledge and life experience. What’s wrong with this? Apparently these schools do not walk down the beaten path of traditional ones, placing an emphasis on education instead of mere profit making.

It would seem that online schools such as Almeda University’s mix of traditional learning and the personal experiences of their students has scared the institutions to the point where they have released their government attack dogs in an attempt to completely discredit these schools, with the goal of maintaining the status-quo of the current system. As they attack this new wave of education, tuition costs of traditional universities continue to rise, denying countless people the opportunity of furthering their education and career potential. Apparently, spending upwards of one hundred thousand dollars is the only way to prove that the education received is worthy of government approval. While these on-line educational programs offer a solid alternative to other post-secondary institutions, they are continuously bombarded and discredited by the education system. It would appear that post-secondary education is crafted for those whose bank accounts warrant it… at least in the eyes of traditional universities.

While these on-line schools are chastised, it is rarely mentioned that the US government does not accredit many other well-known institutions, even though they are well respected worldwide. Cambridge University in England is no more accredited than Almeda University, yet the latter is receiving all the blows. It would seem that the recent influx and popularity of on-line schools has threatened the potential business of traditional schools, so while they claim to be protecting education, they are merely protecting their own business." http://www.degreeadvice.com/blog.htmlXanthebudd 21:11, 14 March 2007 (UTC) — Xanthebudd (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Give me chance! I've only been here a day and I've been reading up on stuff first! Just wait til I get started on the Pope!Xanthebudd 10:04, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


I'd really like to have a go at re-writing the actual article to see if I can make it more of a balanced for and against argument. Is this possible? I know the article is locked but is it posible to, for instance, post a possible alternative article here? Janeybee 18:52, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

You may request an edit to the protected page by using {{editprotected}}, or if you'd like to attempt a rewrite, you can place it on a subpage of this page, such as Talk:Almeda University/temp. Of course, any such edits will need to meet community consensus before they will be implemented. To the above poster-Cambridge isn't accredited, are you kidding? Here's a list just for its physics department [3]! Seraphimblade Talk to me 19:08, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I believe that the statement ( As such its degrees are not acceptable to any employers) should be changed due to the fact that their might be some employers that will accept Almeda's Degrees and certificates. It is your statement, and for it to be true you would have to ask every employer their is, if they would accept the Degrees and certificates. Since you cant ask every employer you are printing a false statement. So if that statement is false I must start looking to see what else is. Make sure things are correct before putting them in print most people believe what they read without question. Rankori Talk to me 01:33, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] POV tag

Would someone other than a single purpose account please quantify the supposed neutrality dispute? I see none here; the article is well supported by citations from reliable sources. Guy 16:02, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Since I, and not anyone else, added the tag: Balance of coverage, lack of information about the actual school, etc. This is stuck only on these issues about its accreditation and ome of the news stories that have come out about it. --badlydrawnjeff talk 16:09, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
The question is, can anyone find a reliable source that doesn't classify it a diploma mill? If not, we can't fudge the article just to be "balanced". That would be WP:OR. And if somebody does find such a source, just incorporate the information. A.J.A. 16:33, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Jeff, I see where you're coming from, but {{sofixit}}. You're a good editor - if you can find reliable sources adding the other POV to the article, then go ahead and do it. If you can't, then how are the rest of us supposed to do it? TheronJ 17:54, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Mainly because I've been working hard on another article and wanted to let this silly dog diploma edit war calm down a bit first. Meanwhile, as an example, it's as if no one's bothered to check out their homepage, which is useful in limited quantities to get a good idea of what they do. --badlydrawnjeff talk 18:07, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

This is a matter of taking an article out of context. The context as written on Wikipedia alludes to the assumption that Almeda knowingly issued a diploma to a dog. The facts in the news article state that the dog's owner completed the application with made-up information and used his dog's name, Wally. The way I had it in my version were accurate according to the article. The "editors" of Wikipedia keep saying that I am not allowed to change it as it is a single use account. But does anyone really care about accuracy here?Veronica678 16:27, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

No, it makes the point that Almeda make no attempt whatsoever to apply any standards of quality or verification to their degree applicants. If you can get a diploma for your dog, answering the questions truthfully as this guy did, then that shows something fundamentally awry in the institution's quality control. Or that it has none, and is a diploma mill, which seems to be what the majority of external commentators believe. Guy 16:29, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Are you kidding? The guy that got the diploma for his dog clearly perjured himself to discredit Almeda. And since he was willing to commit perjury on his Almeda application, what makes you think he was 100 percent honest in the news article? Veronica678 21:36, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know, he didn't commit perjury; he just lied on the form to Almeda. That's a pretty common technique of investigative reporters. If you search a little, you'll see that he works (or at least worked) for the TV station, so my guess is that he did it at the request of the station reporters. That's why I think he didn't lie further. And both their story and our article are honest about the fact that he lied, so our readers can judge the situation as they see fit. Perhaps some will agree with you; others, like the station reporters, will feel that a little creativity in filling out a form is not quite enough to merit an Associate's degree. William Pietri 05:40, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

First, in every state of the USA, KNOWINGLY providing false information on a college application is perjury. Secondly, the Almeda online application will not allow you to submit it without at least a "significant" amount of data. Thus, there must have been a lot more falsified details than the news writer let on -- perhaps enough to qualify him for the associate degree. Lastly, the simple fact that he was doing an investigation does not make him above the law. Is it okay for a news writer to attempt to carry a gun onto an airplane for the sake of an investigation? Certainly not without the direction of the FBI.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Veronica678 (talk • contribs).

I don't know if it would be legal or not, but press coverage about it would certainly be relevant to a story about the airline in question. TheronJ 17:35, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Indeed. Whether or not what he did was a crime doesn't seem obviously relevant to the article. But even if it were, it doesn't matter here until a reliable source says he committed a crime. William Pietri 02:33, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Possible additional sources for Almeda College and/or University

As an answer to the questions below:

  • People applying to Almeda do need to apply to the University. Not everyone is accepted based on life experience.
  • Almeda University has tried to clean up it's image by becoming a more respectable online College/University to gain acceptance like
 to the likes of the University of Phoenix and other traditional college and universities.
  • Any questions, feel free to go to the web site and "talk" to an online representative.

Spurred by Jeff's challenge to offer balance, I took a look for more reliable source references to Almeda.

  • A story in CityLink about Almeda as basically their textbook example of a degree mill - no campus, no courses, no tests, and you get a degree. The story also discusses Almeda's being driven out of Florida by the local regulators.[4].
  • A Naples police officer is forced to pay back his raise received after he received a promotion based on his Almeda degree.[5]
  • Two Naples police officers are fired for claiming degrees from Almeda; bring grievance.[6]
  • Stephen Twenge identifies Almeda as a "degree mill" that exists "only on the web." [7] (Note: This source might not meet WP:RS, as I am not sure of its publication info).

Jeff, I don't see how we're going to be able to introduce the POV you want. Everything I see from any reliable source indicates that Almeda (1) has no campus, (2) teaches no classes, (3) administers no tests, and (4) offers degrees for about $600 based entirely on "life experience." Are you going to insist on the POV tag until someone finds a newspaper article somewhere saying that Almeda is a great school whose degrees are widely accepted by people familiar with the school? If not, what POV are we missing? Thanks, TheronJ 18:15, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

As I said above, there's certainly more that can be said about this place that isn't "diploma mill." If I can get around to it later on, I'll certainly do it, but I don't think I'm taking some extreme position here. --badlydrawnjeff talk 18:28, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Jeff, if you can expand it go for it, but make sure that is passes WP:V. Some diploma mill websites steal data and names from legit schools and post it as their own history. Arbusto 21:50, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
I'll wait a couple of days more, but the tag needs to be removed soon. Arbusto 05:03, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
I'd second that. The more I dig into Almeda, the more the article seems reasonable to me. I'd be glad to find some positive information, but I haven't turned up anything so far. Jeff, if you have references, I'm glad to do the donkey work myself. William Pietri 05:53, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
I'll give it a shot tonight, for real. I got sidetracked the other night and forgot about it. --badlydrawnjeff talk 17:52, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Hi, Jeff. That tag has been up for more than a week, and I think you're the only person currently favoring it. Would you mind if I removed it until you find the sources you're hoping for? Thanks, William Pietri 04:13, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Hi, please read the article, if you think it's written in NPOV, just switch the tag to {{unbalanced}}. The page says nothing positive about the institute, even the view of the institute itself in reply to any of the criticisms isn't posted. While it might be easier to provide criticism for an institute such as this, for a better coverage a balanced article is a lot better. It would let an informed person who reads the article to make their judgements by themself instead of reading it and believing that only one side is allowed to voice their opinion (which would lead them to ignoring the article). - Bobet 09:35, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Our article on Charles Manson doesn't say how kind he was to his mother, either. The reason the article says nothing positive about the place is that, in essence, there is nothing positive which does not emanate from the place itself. It's a diploma mill. There's not much more to be said. Guy 10:50, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
First of all, I disagree with the analogy about Charles Manson, since the article about him does provide some balance, talking about his personal philosophy and motives for his actions. In this case the article has nothing but criticisms, which is bad, because it gives the appearance of an unbalanced article. Having some kind of retort, even from the institute itself would be better, and would let everyone judge things for themselves. You don't need to lead people by hand to the conclusions by providing one-sided coverage, especially in cases when the conclusion is this obvious (I don't disagree with you about the place itself). - Bobet 12:11, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry, I just haven't had the time for the type of research this ultimately deserves. If a POV article is okay with people, I accept being in the minority, but we're just shortchanging ourselves. --badlydrawnjeff talk 11:04, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Could you sketch out what you imagine would ideally get added to the article? I'm just having trouble imagining what you'd like to add. Thanks, William Pietri 15:33, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
I think that what Jeff is getting at is that we might, as an exercise in "writing for the enemy," create a new first body paragraph that stated Almeda's side of the story, cited to their website -- that Almeda offers degrees based on "life experience" as well as on-line courses in a number of primarily technical areas, and, well, I'm not sure what else would meet WP:RS guidelines for self-published materials in articles about the publisher. IMHO, if someone wants to work on this, I think replacing the redirect at Life Experience Degrees with some cited material would be a better project. TheronJ 17:58, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
That doesn't sound unreasonable, but I confess that I'm skeptical that the Almeda College website expresses their view about Almeda College. It's the same question about the people running a pigeon drop: they express a point of view, but are we obliged to believe they hold that view? I don't have an answer; it's just a question I'm struggling with. William Pietri 04:57, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Regarding the Life Experience Degrees redirect, I'm for putting content there if it is real WP:RS. However, I doubt we can find anything of educational WP:V to claim anything that isn't covered on the diploma mill page (where the redirect goes now). Arbusto 00:31, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comment from Ernest k

moved from the top of the page

What I see is a smear job. I believe that most of the things being said are trying to imply that if a school is not accredited by one of the 7 regional accrediting agencies that it is some how illegal. Not true! And the preconceived bias is that if you acquire the same knowledge outside of a classroom blessed by one of these agencies (that are private business not government agencies), that this knowledge is of poor quality. —the preceding comment is by Ernest k - 00:59, 13 October 2006: Please sign your posts! — Ernest k (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

I think a dog getting award a degree shows more serious issues than mere accreditation. Clearly, the person recieving the money does not even care enough to validate a name. Arbusto 05:06, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


Almeda University is a fraudulent Institution that has remain active because of loopholes in the law. The facts remain that they have no legal authority to operate as a University or to grant a legitimate college degree. Technically, as an unlicensed entity Almeda University is illegal in all States.

A few points to remember about Almeda University

1. Illegal in a dozen or more States. 2. Not registered as a legitimate College. 3. Not licensed as a legitimate College. 4. Not Bonded as an academic business because it is fake. 5. Has no legal authority to grant a real college degree. 6. Not recognized by the U.S. Dept. of Education, CHEA,

    or any of their organizations.

7. BBB has trouble posting Almeda University in their website due its lack of veracity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.163.68.202 (talk) 01:56, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Only Partly correct

"What I see is a smear job. I believe that most of the things being said are trying to imply that if a school is not accredited by one of the 7 regional accrediting agencies that it is some how illegal. Not true! And the preconceived bias is that if you acquire the same knowledge outside of a classroom blessed by one of these agencies (that are private business not government agencies), that this knowledge is of poor quality. —the preceding comment is by Ernest k - 00:59, 13 October 2006: Please sign your posts"

There are 6 regional agenicies and you are correct, though only partly correct. Schools can be nationally accredited as well, but Almeda has neither regional or national accreditation, they basically created the agency who accredits them and plenty of other mills.

References:


http://www.chea.org/public_info/index.asp#what


http://www.ed.gov/admins/finaid/accred/index.html

http://ope.ed.gov/accreditation/Search.asp

—the preceding comment is by Aic712 - 14:07, 18 October 2006 UTC: Please sign your posts!

[edit] State action against Almeda

I think there is good evidence here that Almeda's a fake, but here's a link to the state of Connecticut action taken against Almeda.

Board of Governors for Higher Education Department of Higher Education State of Connecticut

http://www.ctdhe.org/info/pdfs/ReportUnlicensedSchools.pdf —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Captinron (talk • contribs) 05:58, 6 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Almeda University

I have looked at all the discussions for Almeda University and have found that even the recently cited material from the State of Conn. is faulty.

Just because a Board of Governors for a State says it doesn't recognize a school due to licensing issues for that State doesn't mean it's a scam, fake or illegal.

Almeda is a accredite University and they have been trying to shed it's bad image. Someone needs to give this University a break and open the doors to them.

Just because a University isn't of the traditional sense of an actual building and is a virtual school/university doesn't mean that it's not accredited.

Thoughts/comments/suggestions??? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dobsonr1 (talk • contribs) 02:27, 3 March 2007 (UTC). — Dobsonr1 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Hi, Dobson. Are there particular changes you'd like to make to the article? Note that they must comply with Wikipedia policies like WP:ATT. Given that this is an article with a troubled history, your best option is to propose changes here, listing your citations supporting each one. Looking at your account history, I'd also suggest you read WP:SPA and WP:COI. Thanks, William Pietri 02:44, 3 March 2007 (UTC)


I have recently spoken to a representative from Almeda University, and they have stated that they have NEVER offered to pay anyone to alter the wikipedia site. That is a total lie to get an administrator to lock the wikipedia page on Almeda and prevent anyone from changing the obvious smear campaign against the school!!

Who is "I" and when was "recently" and what "representative"? 194.76.29.2
  • I'm not sure this is worthwhile since articles are never indefinitely locked. WilyD 14:43, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Paying freelancers to revert this article daily

I would like to alert editors' attention to the following exchange, which I believe highlights attempts by Almeda University to skew the content of this page by paying freelance writers to remove negative information on a daily basis. I post the exchange here to inform future discussions, but I have no interest in further involvement with this article.

A few days ago, I picked up an ad on a subscribers-only freelancer website entitled 'Wiki Requirements'. It read:

One of my clients is suffering with a negative Wikipedia review. Attempts to change the Wikipedia write-up have been short lived. Wikipedia does not require facts to print slanderous comments. Their only "burden of proof" is that someone read it in a newspaper somewhere. Looking for an individual that can review and the Wikipedia comments on an ongoing basis. You will need to log in once daily to see if somebody reverted to slanderous comments. If they had, you will change them back to valid / positive comments. I will not ask you to print anything that's not truthful. The pay for this is $2600/year or $50.00 per week and it's ONGOING. This should only take you a few minutes a day. When you are away or unable to make it on any day, you should deduct $7.15 from the weekly total. Payment made through Guru Safe Pay ONLY. You may need the ability to log in with different IP addresses and/or different accounts. Contact me on the PRIVATE message board with any questions you may have.

I made enquiries about this work and was sent the following private message:

I am glad you are interested in the project. The company we are talking about is Almeda University. And even though Wikipedia has almost crushed Almeda, you should know that Almeda University is a very well-run and consumer-friendly organization. Almeda has excellent customer service, stands behind its product 100% and offers a no-questions asked refund policy. Almeda University is a university that offers life-experience degree. Unlike “diploma mills” Almeda has clear cut requirements for one to earn that degree. Additionally, people that do not meet the qualification are often asked to write a Thesis or Dissertation to prove their knowledge. Since the Almeda degree is not regionally accredited, Almeda makes it perfectly clear to its potential students that if they are looking for employment in the public sector (taxpayer funded jobs), the Almeda degree will probably not be accepted. Almeda, unlike its competitors, provides nothing but honest information and exemplary customer service. Almeda, unlike its competitors, only wants to issue degrees to those people that can honestly benefit from that degree AND are actually eligible for that degree. First, I am getting another editor to change the Almeda write up to a positive one. Once this is accomplished, what I need from you is to continually (daily) look at and update (if needed) the Wikipedia Almeda University review. Almeda does not deserve to be crushed like that by the educational traditionalists that think they are holier than God! For this, I will pay you $50/week ON-GOING. You should know that I am also going to bring in another reviewer (or two) to do the same -- that is, once a day review the site and make sure it stays positive! It's so easy to flip it back and forth that the more eyes I have on it the better the chance will be that it stays positive. You will find a lot of negative information about Almeda. Most of it is addressed on the attached. Please read when you can. But know that these negative statements are all beating down on the same issue. ALMEDA DEGREES ARE NOT FOR EVERYBODY AND SHOULD NOT BE USED FOR TAXPAYER FUNDED EMPLOYMENT IN CERTAIN STATES. Almeda FULLY discloses this to prospective applicants. One line is all that is needed on this subject! Please let me know if you are willing to take on this task. Thank you! - Richard

I replied to the message, saying that I was not willing to undertake the work on these terms as Almeda struck me as a dishonest organisation. If anyone is interested in seeing the 2-page Word document which accompanied the message above, I am happy to provide it. Wombat 17:34, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Great find! Please do send that to me. Also, would you mind naming the web site where you found this? Thanks, William Pietri 22:54, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
The site was [8], a perfectly respectable site where freelancers pick up project work. With your permission, I'll post the content of the Word document on your user page. Wombat 12:58, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Several years ago I was bombarded with adds for a diploma mill out of Detroit; I forwarded the information to Gordon Gee, the president of Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tennessee. Naturally, he was incenced. I suggested that the students from his journalism class do an investigation, much like students in Illinois investigated wrongfully-convicted inmates on death row. The emails soon stopped.
The point is, there is nothing that can replace the kind of education found in a classroom. By admitting that the Almeda diploma may not be accepted in the job market, they themselves have stated just how worthless their "university" really is. Carajou 14:40, 13 March 2007 (UTC)


That last statement that nothing can replace the kind of education found in a classroom is pure and utter nonsense! In fact, while one does learn alot of theoretical knowledge in the class room, the proof of knowledge acquisition is in the application. In other words, you can talk the talk, but can you walk the walk? So what you are saying is that some one who has studied auto mechanics for four years is more able and knowledgeable then someone who has been wrenching on cars all of his life? Bullshit!! Take that to your hallowed halls. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 163.139.181.91 (talk • contribs).— 163.139.181.91 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Actually, your absolutely right Anonymous person. Someone with proof of their training and abilities with mechanics is MUCH more likely to get a job than someone saying 'I've worked on them all my life, honest.' The Kinslayer 15:54, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, your absolutely wrong Kinslayer. I'm not talking about someone saying "I've worked on them all my life" I'm saying someone who has the life experience and can actually do the job. If I worked for general motors or Nascar for ten years, I am going to be more knowledgeable than someone who just learned about automotive theory in a classroom. I am not taking away from classroom knowledge, but at the same time I think it is unfair, and criminal, to de-value peoples life experience. I never went to driving school, I just got in my fathers car and did it until I could do it. I then went and took the driving test and got my license, so at the end of the day, what's the difference?

The difference is you're still on the factory floor pushing those cars along, and being supervised by younger guys who got their degrees and are being paid more as a result. Have a nice day! Carajou 00:00, 19 March 2007 (UTC)


  • I just read about this on the "Signpost". Why isn't it mentioned in the article yet? Hiberniantears 18:16, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
    • Are you aware of a reliable source for it? WilyD 18:17, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Legal" vs. "Valid"

In relation to the status of Almeda degrees in Florida and "Other states" the article now simply says that they are illegal. This is misleading. Saying simply that they are illegal suggests almost that it is illegal to own one. Contrast this with the more correct usage in relation to Texas. If you want to use a single word, "invalid" would be more appropriate. Eclecticology 18:08, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

You should read more carefully. This section doesn't claim that they are illegal (against the law) but that they are not legal (not based on the law). 62.245.209.205 07:09, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thesis

If the PhD student can produce the thesis with this kind of standard, I would say it is not that bad as you think.

And also one of the Almeda faculty member is Prof. Wald Carum.

See below link for one of the thesis by Almeda student. http://www.cepariseau.com/DISSERTATION-Evolution%20of%20Domestic%20Violence%20Awareness-Final.pdf Qwertytech

  • To draw any conclusion from the implied quality of a single dissertation would be original research, and forbidden by policy. Guy (Help!) 21:27, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unfair

This is totally unfair to portray this school in such a poor light. Just because it is not accredited by the usual accrediting bodies does not mean the school is not accredited. It clearly states what bodies it is accredited by, whether they meet the authors approval or not, and this article should say as much. the accredidation issue was recently correected, and someone came back and re-wrote this smear campaign against the school, What does the author have against the school? I will be contacting the school personally and have them contact wikepedia to have this article totally removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.139.181.91 (talk • contribs) — 163.139.181.91 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

I think you'll find they are already trying to pay someone to do just that. The Kinslayer 14:50, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Can someone add this cat?

Resolved. Category added

All diploma mills are, unsurprisingly, for-profit institutions. Thus can [[Category:For-profit universities and colleges]] be added? Or would that insult DeVry and Phoenix... --Bobak 01:25, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Sounds reasonable to me. Can't object to being called what they are now can they. Besides, I'm sure they'll pay someone to remove it if they have a problem! The Kinslayer 14:54, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, I was going to add the cat, but it appears that the article is on lock-down. Can anyone shed any light on this? The Kinslayer 15:02, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Checked the history, an Admin locked the page after it emerged that the University is attempting to pay people to whitewash the article. Guess you'll need to get an admins attention if you want that category added. The Kinslayer 15:04, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
That is what the {{editprotected}} tag is for, image:smile.gif. Done, BTW. -- Avi 15:05, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
I didn't see any tag.... Turns out my offices web filter wont display the edit protected picture. Guess it must be classed as a security threat or something! The Kinslayer 15:06, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External links

{{editprotected}} Can somebody add their website to the External links? It's not listed, which is odd. Website is http://www.almedauniversity.org/ . Also, as it has full protection, can {{sprotected2}} be swapped for {{protected}}? --h2g2bob 23:09, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Y Done - xlink added. It already has {{protected2}}; do you prefer {{protected}}? —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-16 08:30Z

[edit] Comment on article

I was asked to review this article by an editor expressing concern that it violated NPOV, in being too critical of the group. I conclude that, if anything, the article is not quite critical enough. Almeda is deserving of no respect. The article is well-cited, but I wonder if it meets Wikipedia:Notability. Michaelbusch 18:05, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

So much for NPOV, eh? Qwertytech — Qwertytech (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

And your basis for saying the article is 'not critical enough' and that 'Almeda is deserving of no respect' is what exactly? That would not seem entirely fair, given the fact that several positive views of Almeda University have been cited in this discussion page - from well respected sources - but none have as yet found their way into the main article. I think until that happens it is difficult to say this is a fair representation of Almeda University. I wish I had the time to do it because I just hate this hatchet job. jay 18:41, 17 March 2007 (UTC) — Jay impulse (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

I think you'll find the main reason they haven't found their way into the article is because the article has been locked to all editors following the emergence of evidence that Almeda is attmepting to pay people to edit the article round to how they think it should read. And Micahel, I feel notability is possibly acieved through the fact that Almeda is one of only a couple of companies that are attempting to bypass WP:COI by bribing paying 'independent' editors to edit the article on their behalf. The Kinslayer 18:53, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Not quite: there have been numerous prior attempts to - ahem - balance it, but they have fallen a bit short of the usual standards. For example, this edit [9], which removes a few inconvenient but provable facts (well, most of them actually), and replaces them with the claim that it is accredited - by a body with no recognition or status. Not that this is pointed out, you understand. Call me a cynic if you like... Guy (Help!) 21:32, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I know the article itself is locked but I was referring to the fact that people could suggest article changes in the discussion section (I think). These could then be considerd for inclusion in the main article, such as information from the links put up by some contributors above. Of course, if none of this information finds its way into the main article then we will know that Wikipedia is indeed not an impartial encyclopaedia on this subject.jay 19:15, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

The article has been locked until such time as it is deemed safe for it to be unlcked to be edited again. Admins not making additions is probably the best thing to do. Doing nothing is not indicative of bias. The Kinslayer 19:25, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

As stated in the protection rules: 'protection is not an endorsement of the current version'. That said, I think the current article is a reasonable compromise, if Almeda meets WP:NOTE. If Almeda is paying people to make edits to the article to try and make itself look good, it is guilty of running a scam. This does not necessarily make it notable: we don't have articles on every spammer and con artist. I'll need to think about this further. Michaelbusch 20:20, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

I realize that formally, Almeda meets the notability criteria. That said, I'm still inclined to delete or merge the article because I see nothing particularly notable about the company: it is just another diploma mill. Would other editors please review the relevant notability policy and Wikipedia:I wouldn't know him from a hole in the ground and give their opinions? Michaelbusch 20:31, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
  • NPOV in the case of this "university" is best served by preventing those who it is paying to come here and whitewash the article, from doing so. I have reduced to semiprotection for now, let's watch and see, but if anyone is thinking of substituting "non-traditional" for unaccredited as we've seen elsewhere, the time to forget it is right now. Please be in no doubt: we block people who whitwash problematic unaccredited schools. We have done this before. Almeda is not the first diploma mill unaccredited "university" to seek to polish up its image through Wikipedia. Yes, the fact that the world's highest-profile online reference points out that it has no accreditation and no discernible standards is going to make it hard to sell as a going concern. Might even undermine the value. Do we care? Not hardly. If you can find rock-solid independent secondary sources with praise for the place, feel free to add them, but the criticism is verifiable and self-evidently significant, and that's that. I got my degree the hard way - you can tell, can't you? Guy (Help!) 21:22, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

So did I - plus my Masters degree - but I'm not precious about that and I still don't think that traditional universities hold all he answers for everyone. Many skills we'd be in a sorry state without go unaccredited by universities. Over the weekend I'll attempt a write up of some more balanced sources.Janeybee 15:11, 21 March 2007 (UTC) — Janeybee (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

I would be happier if someone else did it. The Kinslayer 13:42, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Another resource

Here's another article with some more information on Almeda and how they're continuing to operate in Florida via the Boise PO Box: [10]. William Pietri 22:16, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

As someone who has gone to a traditional college for a year, got sidetracked with Military service (8 Years worth) and has been involved in the business world for over 20 years in some capacity, I see no downside to a life experience degree. I can say with confidence that much theory practiced in college classrooms, doesn't apply in the real world scenario that many of us find ourselves in. As I have juggled parenthood, work, school,and family life in general, the one area which was easiest to cut back on was school. However, having said that, I believe I am much more qualified for my job , as many people are, through my experience over the course of the last 20 odd years, than I ever would have been fresh out of college with my degree and no experience. That is not to say school is a bad thing. Quite the contrary, it's a wonderful thing, especially when you are youthful and do not have ton of responsibility in your life yet. My point is I've earned my degree from Almeda through my previous college credits, Military schooling credits, and life experience just as much as the student who has been applying his or herself to their work for the last 4 years. I don't think there is anything wrong with being recognized for your accomplishments out in the business world, and schools like Almeda, though ridiculed voraciously, have a place in the world today. Eventually, the barriers will break down and these non traditional schools will not be looked upon with disdain as they are by some now.[[User:Drew[14:04, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pasco 911 rings off hook, supervisor demoted

http://www.tampabays10.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=61123

New Port Richey, Florida - "911, what is your emergency?"

That's how the phone is answered at Pasco County's emergency center, but the emergency seems to be at Pasco 911. It is the agency where several people resigned after a supervisor, was who found sleeping on the job, wouldn't help a caller who was choking. The woman died.

Now we have learned that the Public Safety Answering Point or (PSAP) manger Thomas O'Brien has been demoted.

However, Pasco Fire Chief Anthony Lopinto says O'Brien wasn't demoted. He was never demoted.

And then the fire chief in a very Wizard of Oz-like moment says pay no attention to a June memo written by O'Brien where he says, "I can tell you most certainly I am no longer your PSAP manager."

We asked Lopinto if that means O'Brien's June memo is incorrect. When he says he's no longer the PSAP. Lopinto says while O'Brien says he's no longer the PSAP manager, he is the PSAP manager by title.

You might recall O'Brien is the man who we told you listed on his application that he has a Bachelor and Master's Degree. But the degrees are from an online diploma mill called Almeda University. The school admits on its website that Almeda University degrees are not legal for academic or business use in Florida and seven other states. However, O'Brien has been receiving a $42,000 salary since June even though his new “non demoted” position calls for a $30,000 salary.

And then there is the problem of 911 calls not being answered promptly. When a 911 call comes into Pasco County it goes to fire dispatchers first and then is rerouted to sheriff's dispatchers if it is a police emergency, but we have found several ringing off the hook.

One call rang more than 40 times, for several minutes, before being answered.

Sheriff's spokesman Doug Tobin says it won't ring 40 times if there is a murder.

Tobin says, "Potential life and death calls are answered immediately."

Our sources say there is no ring of truth to that and the only thing that rings and rings is the phone at Pasco 911.

Mike Deeson,Tampa Bay's 10 News

[edit] Proposed NPOV rewrite of opening paragraphs

The lead two paragraphs contain what appear to be opinions or points of view, and I think they could be rewritten to present the factual information about the topic. Here is the article text:

Almeda University is an unaccredited American diploma mill that offers an MBA program through online courses, a "Life Experience Degree" and an online certificate program. Almeda University was founded in 1997.[1] Almeda is not accredited by any recognized accreditation body. As such its degrees are not acceptable to any employers or other institutions and the use of its degree titles may be restricted or illegal in some jurisdictions.[citation needed]

Specifically, the lead sentence describes Almeda as a "diploma mill." While many editors may feel that this is the case, I do not think that there are objective standards that would allow us to clearly know whether this applies.

The second paragraph says "not acceptable to any employers ..." While I understand the sentiment, I cannot think of a way of justifying it as a fact.

I would normally be bold and edit these paragraphs to make them more neutral, but given that there is apparent controversy around the article, as evidenced by its current protected status, I'd like to work towards a consensus for a more neutral version of the above paragraphs. I propose the following:

Almeda University, founded in 1997 [1], is an unaccredited American school that offers an MBA through online courses, a "Life Experience Degree" and an online certificate program. Because it is not accredited, Almeda's degrees are not recognized in many states in the United States, including: Connecticut, Florida, Texas, Oregon, New Jersey, and Illinois.

If anyone could suggest a better rewrite of the opening paragraphs, please do. --Zippy 17:54, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


But they are "accredited"... it's the value/legitimacy of that accreditation that is in question. Case in point, Liberty University (Jerry Falwell's college) was founded in 1971, but not accredited until 1980. So what's the value today of the education/degree held by the graduates from 1975-1980? Then, TRACS supposedly gave them accreditation in 1991 but TRACS came under scrutiny for being a questionable body to provide accreditation to institutions of higher learning (they've since cleaned up their act). There are other 'traditional' colleges/universities that operate with out accreditation, so what makes them different from Almeda just because they have brick-and-mortar campuses? I do think it is more honest to list them as "accredited" but also clearly explain the limits and liabilities of their accreditation and how this might impact the usability of their degrees. user:unregistered - 10 September 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.187.26.15 (talk) 02:25, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


"is an unaccredited American school that offers an MBA through online courses" My problem with this section is that they don't offer any courses. It's a pretty straightforward cash for degree proposition.

Captinron (talk) 06:01, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

  • The current version says Almeda University is an unaccredited American institution that offers various academic degrees through distance education, including a "Life Experience Degree". That does not mention "courses." In any event, I don't believe we have reliable sources to support your statement that "they don't offer any courses." --Orlady (talk) 12:40, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Novelty value only

I see somebody has edited the references to "novelty value only" out, and the comments suggest that gosh, Almeda's web site doesn't say that. It may not say it now, but this is the relevant paragraph that was easy enough to find with Google's cache:

The applicant understands that Almeda University is not accredited by any of the seven regional accrediting bodies recognized by the CHEA (The Council for Higher Education Accreditation). The applicant understands that, while Almeda degrees are widely accepted, accreditation by the AOAEX does not guarantee or imply that your degree will be accepted by everyone. If you are unsure about whether the company you work for or the company you would like to apply to will accept your degree, we encourage you to contact them before proceeding any further with us. Since accreditation by AOAEX is not the same as regional accreditation, Almeda is unable to participate in the federal student aid program or the GI Bill. The applicant understands that Almeda University degrees are not legal for academic or business use in the following states: FL, IL, OR, NJ, ND, TX, WA, and ID. While Almeda is not aware of these states dictating hiring requirements to private businesses, the Almeda degree should not be used in these states for satisfying educational requirements in public sector jobs. Therefore residents of these states should consider the Almeda degree a novelty item only. Please click here for more information.
-- This is Google's cache of https://almedauniversity.org/application/new/policy-procedure.html as retrieved on Jul 20, 2007 20:10:24 GMT.

I don't have time to tidy the article up now, but I wanted to post the reference. I think it's sufficient to say that Almeda has said rather than says the degrees are "novelty items only". Removing the fact altogether seems inappropriate.

Thanks, William Pietri 21:34, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Programs and Courses

Under the Programs and Courses title I would suggest it be changed to reflect the information on Almeda's most current web page (as of today's date: 10-15-2007) to read:

Almeda University has programs awarding Associate, Bachelor, and Master degrees using Prior Learning Assessment. There are also Master and Doctorate programs in the areas of Business and Theology that require completing a thesis or dissertation. Almeda University also offers over 1000 non-degree technical and general knowledge programs and certification programs by e-learning. Swglush 21:13, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WilyD's Reverts

Why does WilyD seem to believe that he has some kind of personal control over this article? My most recent edits were perfectly legitimate and accurate but before you can blink he reverses them without explanation. Surely Almeda is more accurately described as a company than an unaccredited university? And including information lifted virtually word for word from Almeda's website as part of the article's text, without stating this, is hardly acceptable. Afterwriting 10:24, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

  • WP:BLP applies to Juristic persons just as sure as it applies to natural persons. Indeed, *every* university is a corporation (sure, and I live within Toronto, also a corporation). In this context, calling it a corporation is only useful to disparage the idea that it's a university, which is not an editorial judgement we should be making. If we neutrally present the facts to readers, they can figure out for themselves what's going on (see:awarding a degree to a dog). Furthermore, as the article stands, some 5 lines of text (dependant on screen width), some 12 lines of text on its lack of accreditation and the legality of using its degrees, 12 lines of text devoted to negative criticism 5 lines of text devoted to positive criticism. Roughly speaking, some two thirds of the article is devoted to discrediting the institution - no article should ever do that. Readers are not retared - they can read "life-experience degree", "unaccredited" and "gave a degree to a dog" and figure out the score. Our neutrality is already comprimised here, and pushing the article further in the wrong direction simply isn't acceptable. You can seek dispute resolution if you like, but this is a clear cut BLP case. Cheers, WilyD 12:46, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Your assertion that this is a "clear cut BLP case" is far from established and seems to only be based on your personal interpretation of the BLP guidelines with regard to 'juristic persons'. Nothing in my reading of the guidelines "clearly" supports your assertions in this matter. There is still no excuse for including a section in the article that's derived from Almeda's website without making it clear that this is the source. Some consistency regarding implementing the guidelines wouldn't be amiss. Afterwriting 13:29, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

  • The footnote clearly indicates the information source. And yes, there is - an article that only includes the view of critics is totally unacceptable. WilyD 14:40, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

I've changed the word to "institution", which I think is neutral. I have seen no reliably sourced evidence that Almeda is a university in the usual meaning of the word, but I don't think it is necessary to label it a "company." --Orlady 15:33, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

  • I'm unconvinced "university" implies anything untoward, but "institution" seems reasonable to me as well. WilyD 18:26, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] BBB?

Just curious why the BBB section is relevant to a "university"?

Captinron (talk) 05:58, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Protected

Due to edit warring at this page, it has been protected for four days. Please use this time to come to a consensus on the wording you wish to include. If you have agreed before the protection expires, drop by WP:RFPP. If you continue to disagree, perhaps you should list a request for comments. Stifle (talk) 08:29, 10 April 2008 (UTC)