Talk:Allston, Boston, Massachusetts

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[edit] Anal Cunt reference...

it is true: http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/analcunt/40morereasonstohateus.html#5 69.42.5.52 00:24, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Nobody said it wasn't true. It was removed for two reasons:
  • It's non-notable. This isn't an interesting, important, or distinctive fact about Allston; I'm sure half of all the towns and town-like entities in America have little-known or out-of-mainstream bands that come from them and mention the town in their songs.
  • It's jarring. If somebody's great-aunt Mildred is looking up information about Allston in Wikipedia, she's not expecting to have the words "Anal Cunt" popping up in front of her face. I believe Wikipedia should respect the sensibilities of the casual user to the extent reasonable; and it is reasonable in this case for reason #1 above. It is, in a word, inappropriate.
AJD 19:01, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I think it is very pertinent to the article, considering:
  • It's a stub, so any information regarding the city is useful.
  • The article already talks about "The prevalence of musicians and music venues" as giving rise to "the popular nicknames "Allston Rock City" and "Rock and Roll Allston."
as a compromise, I propose we write: "In fact, Seth Putnam of the rock band A.C. often refers to Allston in his songs."
69.42.5.52 02:14, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Well, I think that's better, anyway. I'd like to see if anyone else has anything to add, though, if anyone else is watching this talk page. AJD 06:37, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I think that the issue here is that the sentence about Seth Putnam and Anal Cunt seemed to be more about promoting the artist than providing facts about Allston. If you said that various musical groups with links to the area have referred to Allston in their work, you might expand to include a short list of examples (Big D and the Kids Table, Toxic Narcotic, and A.C.). I would still question whether or not that is a useful piece of information to someone who wants to learn more about Allston, especially given AJD's point that most major cities and their neighborhoods are referred to in lyrics or song titles, and there is nothing unique to Allston about it.
EricJay 06:13, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I have been a part of the punk scene in the Boston since the 80s and have been to a lot of shows and have never even heard of this band - I think they are non-relevent in a discussion about Allston. I believe they would be better suited in an article that speaks directly to bands that have come from Allston or just bands from Boston in general and we can point to that article from here. If we listed all bands that hail from Allston we would have an absurdly long list. If the act were known outside of Alston and had name recognition I think we might consider adding them but only using an acronym such as A.C. But then it might not be as fun for someone to place here for shock value. I say remove it! I decided for the moment to change to A.C.Markco1

[edit] Move?

There is no such thing as a borough of Boston. Allston is a neighborhood of Boston, putting the word borough next to that is misleading and wrong.

What was that for? AJD 18:39, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Listing the Boston neighborhood of Allston as "Allston, Massachusetts" implies that it is independent and not a part of the City of Boston. It is not a direct subdivision of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts like Brookline or Cambridge, but rather a direct subdivision of the City of Boston. Thus it should be listed as such: "Allston, Boston, Massachusetts". This is the format used elsewhere in Wikipedia for neighborhoods - for example, see the dozens that comprise the City of Los Angeles (see Category:Los Angeles neighborhoods). The move is for clarity and consistency.

There are dozens upon dozens of Massachusetts village and neighborhood articles that are listed in the same format as "Allston, Massachusetts". See Teaticket, Massachusetts, Bondsville, Massachusetts, Vineyard Haven, Massachusetts, Fiskdale, Massachusetts, Hyannis, Massachusetts, and more. Every one of them is a subdivision of some other city or town, and every one of them has a two-part article title. Furthermore, mail sent to addresses in Allston is addressed to "Allston MA 02134", not "Boston MA 02134" - it's not as if "Allston, Massachusetts" weren't something people actually say. AJD 19:47, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)


Just because a confusing practice is done elsewhere doesn't justify it here. The United States Postal Service does not have the last word on political and civic matters - it is only charged with delivering the mail. A search at the USPS ZIP Code Lookup Site (http://zip4.usps.com/zip4/welcome.jsp) reveals that both "Boston" and "Allston" are acceptable for use with the ZIP code 02134. When I lived in the Allston neighborhood, I gave out my address as "Boston MA 02134" - (which was postally as well as technically correct, because I was living in the City of Boston!) - and never had any problems with my mail delivery.

People say many things, but verbal shorthand and slang terms don't really belong in the title of an encyclopedic article. If anything, a reference to them should be in the body of the article. For example, one could add "Though annexed to Boston in the 19th Century, there is a common misperception that Allston is separate city. This is perpetuated by the Postal Service's use of "Allston" as an acceptable place name, although the more correct "Boston" is interchangeable with it in addresses with the ZIP code 02134." Gellersen 18:42, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

So, wait, does this imply that you think Teaticket, Massachusetts should be moved to Teaticket, Falmouth, Massachusetts, Hyannis, Massachusetts to Hyannis, Barnstable, Massachusetts, and so on? The difference between Hyannis and Allston for these purposes is that, for some reason, Hyannis is recognized by the Census Bureau and Allston isn't. Surely the Census Bureau's arbitrary decisions are no more binding on us than the Postal Service's? AJD 14:05, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
The post office delivers to Allston addresses partly because some street names overlap with street names elsewhere in Boston (such as Essex Street, near the BU Bridge, and Essex Street in Chinatown). MMZach 19:16, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Just checked the USPS website - there's no "Essex" in 02134. But even if there were, it would be hard to confuse 02134 with 02111 or 02129. I think it has more to do with "tradition", resisting change, and an overdeveloped sense of pride than with the possibility of confusing two homes or businesses in different parts of the city that happen to have the same street address. Denvoran 19:29, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

FYI, I believe Essex Street is in 02215 (adjacent to 02134). For what it's worth, my mail comes addressed to "Allston," although I've gotten mail addressed to "Boston," or even "Brighton" and had it delivered successfully. --Ersatzbot 19:18, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] BC

In Colleges and Universities it was stated that Boston College is in Brighton, in fact it is in Newton. I also added the fact that Harvard now owns large portions of lower Allston.

BC, in fact, straddles the border between Newton and Brighton.18.173.1.42 17:35, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

However, the section of Brighton which contains BC is certainly not the Allston neighborhood. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.61.189.131 (talk • contribs).

[edit] "Rock and Roll Allston"?

I lived in Allston for a long time and still live nearby. I've never heard "Rock and Roll Allston" anywhere but in this article. A Google search only shows the phrase occurring in this article. I move that it be deleted unless someone can offer something more.18.173.1.42 17:40, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Actually, the name 'Allston Rock City' is quite well known of the area's denizens, and can even be seen on t-shirts from the popular local bar, The Common Ground. The name is derived from the fact that Allston is home to many musicians, music-obsessives, and music clubs.
Agreed. But "Rock 'n' Roll Allston"? Not so much.146.115.127.135 02:53, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed

The claim that "Packard's Corner" is named after a car dealership conflicts with the article on Packard's Corner, which says it was named after a stable and riding school. -- Beland 12:40, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Fixed (as done at the Packard's Corner article. 65.96.228.134 06:38, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Population

The person or people who keep changing the page to claim that the population are virtually all students are ignoring the fact that about half the population (as correctly cited in the page's statistics section) are adults, not students. These older residents are mostly immigrants, many of them people of color, and bohemians. They are less visible than the students (except in the summer, when many of the students leave) because the adults don't hang out on the street as much. The frequent claims that the population is "all students" or words to that effect is obnoxious, and possibly even racist(since most of the students are white and many of the immigrants are not).

Also, I can assure you that most of the adult residents do not regard the neighborhood as "Rock City Allston." We regard the rock bars and the students as noisy pests; we are just trying to live our lives in peace in one of Boston's most ethnically diverse working-class neighborhoods.

As much as you have to acknowledge the adult population, it is unfair to dismiss the students as noisy pests. Students give the neighborhood a lively feel and are just as much a part of the neighborhood as you are. In addition, not all of them are obnoxious college students.

[edit] Page needs a map

A map showing showing the area with borders and surrounding communities would help a lot. I've driven through and to A-B hundreds of times and I'm still confused. 01:37, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding Map request

From the Wikipedia template page:

"The following tags should be added to articles that need a cleanup. Unless otherwise noted, they should be placed at the top of the article"

MarkinBoston 18:14, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Geography quibbles

1. There is a very clear boundary between Allston and Brighton. It's called a ZIP code. Like the border between almost any two adjacent cities you can name, it isn't visible. But it exists.

2. The neighborhood of Allston is not cut off from the main body of Boston by the Charles River. The river separates Allston from Cambridge.

-- Joey Harrison, January 21, 2008