Talk:Alice Nine

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Japan To-do:

Someone has put something along the lines of:

"But it is bloody malignant to put all these infos in English! and how they make French like me hein?! because I am English nule me! -__-'"

in French at the end of the member's list. Yeah. I deleted it. Im sorry if no one has translated any French articles regarding Alice Nine, dude. Just wait.

I'm pretty sure that Shou's real name is Kohara Kazamasa. One the page it says Obara, and I don't know which one's right.

Contents

[edit] Resource Reasoning

First Major release - helps denote Notability. Having songs used as show start and end songs? Denotes notability. Performing outside Japan? Denotes notability (this is a personal notability reference, I think that Japanese bands that perform in English speaking countries draw the attention of English speaking fans, and may rate a page when otherwise I wouldn't think so). Multipe sources help show that the band is notable as there are many sources to use to create the article. Denaar 19:52, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

In reply to the points you have raised:
  • While the necessity for an emphasis on indie/major status is not clear to me anyway, how exactly is King Records to be considered a major label? The Wikipedia article on it explicitly states, that it is not affiliated with an multinational entity, hence not part of any of the Big Four.
  • The use of those songs as opening and ending themes has been re-added.
  • Information on the band's Los Angeles gig was never removed.
  • I agree on the benefit of having multiple references for the same data. Strangely enough, none of the information in your last revision came with multiple sources.
Regarding your ongoing preference (on this and other pages) for fairly short Biography sections, which are de facto lists of loosely connected bits of information (sourced or not): Wikipedia:Avoid trivia sections explicitly states, "Avoid creating lists of loosely related information." Hence, a distinction between the lead and a Biography section is not going to happen until enough information is available to support both in a comprehensive, well-bodied form. Just because an article is still in stub-stage, it does not have to throw a disjointed mess of data at its readers.
Lastly, a friendly word of advice: It would serve your efforts tremendously if you were to show the courtesy and consideration to work collaboratively on an article, even if you disagree with certain changes made by later editors. In oder words, kindly refrain from knee-jerk reverts, that also undo changes you never provided any rationale against and also might be fairly uncontroversial improvements, such as the implementation of more advanced citation syntax and additional wikification. - Cyrus XIII 21:29, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
You are the one who adding band members (Kyoka) to bands they aren't a part of in your hurry to change all the articles I changed. The information is a stub, not a list. It is in chronological order by year just like all the other vk band pages (many of them sourced) in an attempt to follow the same style as other pages. By reverting my edits and removing resources you are assuming bad faith on every single edit I make to wikipedia. Denaar 23:19, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Even though I removed it from the article, this confirms the statement about the band going major in 2005: CD Journal (a site to add as another good source for current bands!) note it describes them as a "Visual Kei Rock Band" specifically in the opening sentence. I admit I don't know much about King Records except that we can confirm Alice Nine is it, (by King's site and also by the change in the way the CDs are numbered, the first 4 letters of a CD number indicate the label, which allows us to determine exactly when label changes occur. Since these numbers are on sites like cdjapan they are easy to reference). As for the reason, check out WP:Music criteria for musicians and ensembles section, numbers 4 and 5, (Completeing a National Tour and releasing albums on a major label - the old criteria was one, guess it has changed). Just about every Japanese vk band completes a national tour - but I still wouldn't support all the little vk bands that form for a year and break up on here. The info I'm including isn't trivial, or random (Using words like "random trivia" is an assumption of bad faith) but information that shows the bands notibility in reliable third party sources, per WP:Music. Denaar 17:43, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Clean up notes

I just did some general clean up today (September 3), changing the references system to avoid clutter and assist new editors. I also cut down on the amount of code by utilizing the ref name tags already in place (allowing me to cut out everything but the name for twice-used references). The photo book was moved to a "Bibliography" section, as it's a book, not a disc. Some of the wording was changed for clarity, and a few links were placed. It was a big edit, so I'm summarizing for a better understanding. --Jacob 15:17, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Alice Nine. helping working on pages anyone?

Hello, I'm here to fix up the alice nine. related pages. I've made pages recently for the last 5 singles; Blue Planet (song), Number Six (song), Jewels (song), White Prayer and Tsubasa (song), i've also fixed up the Zekkeishoku page, although there's still a lot to do for it, and I've made a page for the upcoming Alpha (Alice Nine album) album. If there is anyone wishing to help me creating more pages and finding more reliable information (in english) for alice nine. please go onto my talk pages and notify me, thank you.

P.S please add the category Category:Articles related to Alice Nine to any alice nine related pages Blkeddie! (talk) 04:35, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Logo

There has been some back-and-forth on the logo issue, and I'll admit it's mostly coming from my end. I'll explain my reasoning here. There's been a heckuva long and rather contentious discussion at Template_talk:Infobox_Musical_artist#Logos about the inclusion of logos in articles about musical acts, and though there is still a lot of divisiveness on the issue there are certain valid points, and even some consensus, that has come out of it. What I'm concerned with here is mainly the fact that logos don't belong in infoboxes of articles about musicians. The purpose of the "name" field of the infobox is for a free or fair use picture of the artist, not their logo. In fact, Template:Infobox Musical artist#Img states that the purpose of the field is for "an image of the act (my emphasis), sufficiently clear for display at 220 pixels' width." If a comprehensive, free photo of the band is unavailable, then you can make the case for a fair-use photo in its place. That's one of the reasons that fair-use policies exist, for those situations.
Further to that, there is the question of what exactly constitutes a "logo" in terms of a musical act, and to what degree a logo may or may not be notable. The general consensus seems to be that if the logo is notable, and verifiable, then the proper place for it is in the article body alongside a referenced discussion of its significance. This allows the image to add some meaningful informational content to the article, rather than just serving as decoration. Without critical commentary then it is likely that the use of the image fails WP:NONFREE and that the logo probably isn't notable. Note that it is at best unclear whether the provisions of WP:LOGOS (which allows logos to be used in most cases strictly for identification) applies to the logos of musical acts. WP:NONFREE (of which WP:LOGOS is a subset) only specifies that "Team and corporate (my emphasis) logos [may be used] for identification." In an article about a musical act, a logo is at best a secondary form of identification because we already have the name of the act in plain text and a field for a free or fair-use image of the act.
Basically what I'm saying is that if the Alice Nine logo is in fact notable, then it should be in the article body with some type of referenced discussion of its significance (ie. Who designed it? In what context is it used? Does it have some symbolic meaning? Does it have any cultural, historical, or artistic significance?). Obviously this is too much to cram into the infobox. If there is nothing to say about it other than "it's their logo," then it's probably non-notable and therefore fails fair-use criteria. As a temporary compromise I've moved it into the article body, where hopefully some meaningful commentary can develop around it. --IllaZilla (talk) 22:31, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Um, said logo is just text in a particular typeface and as such not eligible for copyright. No fair use here. - Cyrus XIII (talk) 22:43, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
I notice you made that change on the image page. It depends on where it was taken from. If it was pulled from one of their album covers, then it is a segment of a copyrighted work and is subject to the same copyright as the entire work, even if you've altered it digitally to suit your own needs. And if it's really just text in a particular typeface, then in what way is it notable? --IllaZilla (talk) 22:51, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Browsing through the discography and looking at the album covers, it appears Alice Nine doesn't even have a logo. They display their name in a different font/style on almost every release (at least all the releases that have articles linked here). The only consistency seems to be all lowercase with a period at the end. This could be easily explained in the opening paragraph as "Alice Nine (usually typset alice nine.) ..." So, it appears the image being used isn't in fact a logo, in which case why have it in the article? --IllaZilla (talk) 23:34, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merger proposal

None of the individual musicians in this band assert notability of their own. The band as a whole is barely notable enough to add to Wikipedia, with the sole fact that they performed at Jrock Revolution and have gained a minute amount of success in the United States and/or Europe. Any questions? --Jacob Talk 19:37, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Sure, thats a good idea seeing as they barely have enough information themselves, merging minor things - eg real name, may help the page itself expand, btw are you willing to do this? Blkeddie! (talk) 04:53, 28 March 2008 (UTC)