Talk:Ali Shariati
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== Biography assessment rating comment ==
The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- KGV (Talk) 08:24, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
This article needs to be worked on.
Is it a given that SAVAK killed him, or is this just speculation? -- Zoe
It is a speculation Alireza Hashemi
Thanks, I'm going to put that into the article. -- Zoe
- In addition to SAVAK, I believe it has also been speculated that he was murdered by supporters of the Khomeinist clerics, since after the clerical takeover the regime severely downplayed his role in the Revolution, and banned some of his works, since he was a deeply committed nationalist and supporter of Mossadegh and the National Front (Jebhe Melli), which the Khomeinist clerics were very much against. Shariati's rational and realist philosophy was also very much at odds with Khomeini's tyrannical fanaticism, so it would not be surprising at all if it was, in fact, Khomeini's own supporters who murdered him. I've heard this sort of speculation far more than the possibility of SAVAK having committed the deed. After all, the Shah did have the opportunity to have Khomeini killed, but didn't go for it, citing that he didn't want to create any martyrs. So this SAVAK idea doesn't make much sense. Just my two cents. -- Anon
Copyright infrigement (The author of Shariati biography)
"All the materials in this page including texts, picture filesand audio files are protected by copyright regulations. All of their rightsare reserved and belong to Dr. Pooran Shariat-Razavi (Dr. Shariati's spouse) and Dr. Ehsan Shariati (Dr. Shariati's oldest son)."
........................ Dr Shariati belongs to the nation not the family! Where were they (the family) when we sat at his lectures and endangered our lives?
82.70.40.190
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[edit] FALSE Quotations
82.70.40.190
“I have no religion, but if I were to choose one, it would be that of Shariati.” - Jean-Paul Sartre
This quotation is false and its NOT true. I dont know what kind of website or Encyclopedia is this that you can put whatever NONSENSE you like in it!!!!
The other thing is that, the organizers of the site first give the right to edit and when one try to edit they scream vandalism!!!!
My question: What is the source of the quotation? Shariati himself or his wife? (corrected by Farvahar 11:05, 24 June 2005))
regards —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.250.82.62 (talk • contribs) 16:20, 22 June 2005.
- We accept good-faith edits, not vandalism, not personal attacks on the subjects of articles, and not the adding of nonsense. I hope that that's clear now. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 16:07, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
HOW about the quotation? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Farvahar (talk • contribs) 17:23, 22 June 2005.
- I know of no grounds for suspecting its antecedents; it appears on various Web pages, in different versions, not only on the official Shariati Web page. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 16:46, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
You got to be kidding me? What is your education level? High school? Is this the level of quality of this so called Encyclopedia, refering to other websites? How about Jean-Paul Sartre site? Where and when did he say that? YOU HAVE NO IDEA, right?
Pleeeease! I asked for the source of the quote, you are not providing it, since there is none. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.250.82.62 (talk • contribs) 18:46, 22 June 2005. (corrected by Farvahar 11:05, 24))
- If I thought that you had any genuine reason for challenging it – if you'd made good-faith edits rather than childish vandalism – then I'd take the trouble to do a proper search. As it is... Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 17:59, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I was trying to prove that you lack QUALITY in your work.
When ANYone can post materials and ANYone else can edit it, then the whole site loses its credibility. furthermore I have proven that you are not able to corret and improve the information on your site, due first to your lack of knowledge and second your childish attitud. (corrected by Farvahar 11:05, 24))
You call it encyclopedia, I dont. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.250.82.62 (talk • contribs) 19:06, 22 June 2005.
- Actually you've proved that we can detect and correct vandalism very quickly. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 18:14, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
No boddy, you have proven that ignorant people can be found anywhere. Islamic terrorists and all the mullas in Iran thank you for your great work. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.250.82.62 (talk • contribs) 19:24, 22 June 2005.
- OK, let's have a look at this quotation. From what I can see it is refered to a lot on various sties, but never with proper source information. I've not seen any reference to when and where he said it. I would sugggest that the quotation is either removed, or changed to read something like "according to xxx, Jean-Paul Sartre said: 'quote'". Thoughts? -- sannse (talk) 28 June 2005 11:07 (UTC)
Thank you for your input Sannse. All those sites have infact taken the quote from the "official Shariati Web page". If you go there you see the quote on the first page. This is my two cents, since there is no proper source, the quote should be removed. People who visit his web page will see the quote anyway, you shouldnt be "responsible" for it. If and when you find a proper source for the quote or ANY other evidence to support it, you could put it back. If you are really interested to improve this page on Shariati, you could contact this guy Siyavash AWESTA at http://persian.aria7000.com/usa.htm , he is Shariati's childhood friend and knows everything about him. Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.156.10.51 (talk • contribs) 08:52, 29 June 2005.
- The claim that all the sites took the quotation from the same source is conjecture; against it is the fact that they use different translations. I agree that it would be ideal if there was a specific source, and I'll keep looking — but multiple Web sources are surely good enough to keep it there for the moment. Given that the person insisting on its removal has vandalised the page on numerous occasions, and made comments suggesting a far from balanced and neutral stance, I'd want to see some grounds for rejecting the quotation to balance the grounds for accepting it. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 29 June 2005 12:03 (UTC)
Its because different people translate the original quote which is in Farsi, thats why there are different translations. It is up to you to keep the level of quality of this site, if refering to other web sites is enough for you, then go ahead. If thats ALL you can do, I dont blame you. But in the world of academic(unfamiliar to some!!!!), quoting Jean-Paul Sartre and NOT having any real source for it, projects only low quality...... At the request of Sannse, I wont attack Mel Etitis personally, but only ask him to NOT distort the truth, refering to this comment(has vandalised the page on numerous occasions)!!!! AGAIN, this should NOT be about my actions here(my FIRST edit here), It should be about the FACTS. Question: Who should provide source for the facts introduced by this site, users or admins? Do users should prove YOU wrong or you should provide evidence for YOUR claim. Keep in mind that I AM NOT asking to add facts to this page, you are!! If I come here with a claim, without an evidence to prove it, do you put it on the site? If my evidence are only other sites do you allow me to add them to your site? Where lays the responsibilty for quailty and correctness? And one last thing, dont you think its more appropriate that this quote would be found in French and NOT in English???!!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.156.10.51 (talk • contribs) 15:21, 29 June 2005.
- It's pretty clear that one person is responsible for all the unsigned comments, as well as for the vandalism; the style suggests it, apart from anything else.
- Are you saying that the original is in Farsi, or that it's in French (I assume that the latter is unlikely, as I'm unaware that Sartre spoke Farsi)?
- If you mean, do I think that it's appropriate that the quotation be in English here, then yes, as this is an English-language encyclopædia. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 29 June 2005 16:28 (UTC)
This is what I've found so far: the quotation appears on the back cover of Shariati on Shariati and the Muslim Woman, ed. Laleh Bakhtiar (Kazi Publications (1996). ISBN 1871031508) — this seems to be where some Web sites got it, at least.
That Shariati was known in Parisian intellectual circles seems clear (see, for example, [1], [2]), and the French wikipedia confirms that he knew Sartre. As Sartre corresponded with Fanon and Iqbal, the quotation could come from letters to one of them. When I have anything more specific, I'll post it here. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 29 June 2005 17:10 (UTC)
1-Well duhh.... Isnt it obvious. I didnt logged in when I wrote the above comments.
2-Yes thats what I am saying. And thats why Sartre could not have said it.
3-I mean IF Sartre have said it, then it should be VERY easy to find the quote in its original langauge, Sartre language. Which is more appropriate. But what you find is only in English and by Shaiati´s supporter and follwers and admirers, like this Laleh Bakhtiar. Doesnt prove anything.
Sartre and Shariati both went to Paris unversity, thats a known fact, but its not confirmed that they knew each other, or Sartre knew Shariati.
BTW, if you look at Amazon for the book Shariati on Shariati and the Muslim Woman, it says: By: Ali Shariati, Laleh Bakhtiar.
- Why do you neither log in nor sign?
- Why do you insist on the hostile and aggressive tone?
- The fact that it appears somewhere in Farsi shows only that it was translated into Farsi, and certainly says nothing about whether or not Sartre could have said it.
- I don't expect to find everything on the Web; why do you?
- The book is a collection of pieces by Shariati, edited by Bakhtiar. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 30 June 2005 08:34 (UTC)
1- I maybe dont feel like it, or I might have forgotten, I might have other reasons. If your system allows me to write without logging in, then Its ALLOWED. Beside its VERY obvious that its the same person who is writing these comments.
2- Because I have NO respect for you and your wrok AT ALL. You dont know what you are doing, you have NO reason whatsoever for keeping the quote, you can NOT find any evidence for your claim, you refer to other webs sites to prove your case ....... but you still insist that you are right and you keep the false qoute on this page. I only respect knowledge.
3- Your arguments are weak as your logic. How dose finding a quote in Farsi prove the quote has been translated into Farsi? If the quote have been MADE UP in Farsi, then its found only in Farsi. You are assuming that the quote is correct, without having any proof. I suggest that you change the name of the site to "The free Assumptions".
4- If you base your whole world on the web, if your whole argument is that the quote exists on the web, therefore it MUST be true, then I also ask that you produce this quote in its original form on the web.
5- So THAT'S prove everything :), why didnt you say so :), come on!!!!
What comes first, your pride or quality of this site??????? ....... Farvahar ......
Mel, you shouldn't argue with Farvahar, he just doesn't like Shariati or anything related to Islam!
You people are reducing the whole value of Shariati's and Sartre's works to whether the quotation is true or not. It doesn't matter. In all probability, the quote was trumped up by someone who deeply respected Sartre but admired Shariati more, since I myself could not find the quote elsewhere. Sartre and Shariati were both completely independent human beings. Their worldviews differed, and if they were to judge each other's ideas, they would not be able to do so except by first reducing the other's ideas to the values of their own particular paradigms. That is why the world is not composed of just Existentialists or just Muslims. I myself am Muslim, and a particle physicist .. the Book repeatedly makes a strong point of how there are different worldviews, and therefore, to each his own. Farvahar, you need to overcome your Islamophobia and find more important things in your life to criticise, perhaps starting with your own self, not to sound too condescending. And in the true spirit of Shariati, we Muslims must be the ones to overcome Islamofascism and not have others who suffer from messiah complexes do it for us. Cheers.
Has Mel found any new evidence for his claims yet??
[edit] FALSE Quotations II
Forget this poppycock. There are some bloggers who cite the quote, no WP:RS by far, and it says so on Shariati's website, which is not a acceptable secondary source on anything Sartre related either. btw: Sartre was a radical twit, but not an Islamist - the quote is just the usual pious grandiloquence, popular in some places of the world, where green banners flutter and Western respect and acknowledgement direly felt absent. --tickle me 09:53, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] schooling
"University of Paris"? I thought he was a Sorbonne graduate. Somebody please chekc.--Zereshk 09:08, 14 January 2006 (UTC) 00:41, 13 May 2006 (UTC) 82.70.40.190
he was killed either by SAVAK agents or by overzealous supporters of the Ayatollah Khomeini?
It is like saying " he ws killed by CIA or KGB! make your mind!
As MOSSAD does most of the Muslim assassinations why do you cut them out?
This is really a cock-up! You mean you even don’t know where the guy was graduated from?
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University of Paris Sorbonne ;) Alireza Hashemi 02:27, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] SAVAK? Natural causes
Who writes that SAVAK killed him? In his biography [3] Ali Rahnema doesnt say anything about SAVAK killing him. In the book he writes that Mr. Shariati died of natural causes in London and he lists official death certificate and medical report which shows that this is true. There is no mention in the biography about SAVAK or anyone killing him which sounds like conspiracy theory. Khorshid 09:43, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
