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[edit] From Talk:Ali/Archive4

The term Rafidi is an arabic islamic political term that is used for specific people. Its first use was after the time of Zayd bin Ali bin AlHussein bin Ali bin Abi Taleb revolution and death. It is true it means refusers. Tose people had conditions on Zayd to fight with him at the time of the war when he did not accept their conditions they deserted him. The first occurence of their name after they met with Imam Jaafar AsSadeq the nephew of Zayd an dthey introduced themselves as the known rafidis. Jaafar cursed them. After that time many authors who hate Shia called them unjustly Rafidis. Many sunnis however like AshShahrastani in his book "al-Milal wa Nihal" "Sects and cults" states the difference between Shia and Rafidis although his definitions are not very welcomed by the shia.Even anti-shia talked about early shia at the time of Ali and shortly after. But now they use the term claiming that nowadays shia are rfidis rather than Shia, which for sure is unjust. To summarize, Rafidis is a derogatory description of Shia and shia never use it to descibe themselves. In addition it has never been used before the word shia to mean religio-political group of Islam. 129.130.124.101 03:41, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ali" excuse my novicity 129.130.124.101 03:42, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

The term may be used as an epithet now, but it is also true that the earliest sources mention the term, as being used specifically of those who initially refused to give their baya'h to Abu Bakr.

It is also accepted by academic historians that the Shi'a sect as it is known today emerged only gradually, and that there WERE no Shi'a, holding all the doctrines accepted by Twelver Shi'a, just after Muhammad's death. There were only people who liked Ali and felt he had gotten a bum deal.

This should all be covered in an article on the history of the Shi'a, which would have to be divided into a Shi'a version, a Sunni version, and an academic version. I just haven't had the time and energy to do it.

It may be possible to rewrite that section so as to mention that the term was descriptive then, but has become an epithet now. I will also have to find the references for the early use. Zora 04:37, 14 February 2006 (UTC)