Talk:Alexandria

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[edit] Material from the 1911 article

This page needs some drastic updating by someone familiar with the modern city. I'm moving some of the more dated material from the 1911 article here, for reference; some of it may be suitable for working back in, but I'm willing to bet that much no longer applies. Catherine

[edit] City

“ The customs house and chief warehouses are by the western harbor, but the principal buildings of the city are in the east and southeast quarters. From the landing-stage, by the customs house, roads lead to the Place Mehemet Ali, the center of the life of the city and the starting-point of the electric tramways.

A number of short streets lead from the square to the eastern harbor. Here a sea wall, completed in 1905, provides a magnificent drive and promenade along the shore for a distance of about three miles. In building this quay a considerable area of foreshore was reclaimed and an evil-smelling beach done away with. From the south end of the square the rue Sherif Pasha -- in which are the principal shops -- and the rue Tewfik Pasha lead to the boulevard de Rosette, a long straight road with a general east and west direction. In it are the Zizinia theatre and the municipal palace (containing the public library); the museum lies up a short street to the north. Opened in 1895 this museum possesses an important collection of Egyptian, Greek and Roman Antiquities, found not only in the city but in all Lower Egypt and the Fayum. The western end of the boulevard leads to the Place Ibrahim, often called Place Ste Catherine, from the Roman Catholic Church at its southeast side.

In a street running south from the boulevard to the railway station is the mosque of Nebi Daniel, containing the tombs of Said Pasha and other members of the khedivial family. Immediately east of the mosque is Kom ed-Dik, garrisoned by British troops, one of several forts built for the protection of the city. Except Kom ed-Dik the forts have not been repaired since the bombardment of 1882. Equally obsolete is the old line of fortifications which formerly marked the limits of the city south and east and has now been partly demolished. Throughout the central part of Alexandria the streets are paved with blocks of lava and lighted by electricity.

The north quarter is mainly occupied by natives and Levantines. The narrow winding streets and the Arab bazaars present an Oriental scene contrasting with the European aspect of the district already described. This Arab quarter is traversed by the rue Ras et-Tin, leading to the promontory of that name.

This quarter has been pierced by several straight roads, one of which, crossing the Mahmudiya canal by the Pont Neuf, leads to Gabbari, the most westerly part of the city and an industrial and manufacturing region, possessing asphalt works and oil, rice and paper mills. On either side of the canal are the warehouses of wholesale dealers in cotton, wool, sugar, grain and other commodities.

Along the northern side of the Mahmudiya canal, which here passes a little south of the catacombs, are many fine houses and gardens (Moharrem Bey quarter), stretching eastward for a considerable distance, favourite residences of wealthy citizens. A similar residential quarter has also grown up on the northeast, where the line of the old fortifications has become a boulevard. The district extending outside the east fortifications, in the direction of Hadra, has been laid out with fine avenues, and contains numerous garden-cafes and pleasure resorts. Thence roads lead to the east suburb known generally as Ramleh, which stretches along the coast, and is served by a local railway. It begins east of the racecourse with Sidi Gabr, and does not end till the khedivial estates east of San Stefano are reached, some five miles east. All this space is filled with villas, gardens and hotels, and is a favourite summer resort not only of Alexandrians but also of Cairenes.

The eastern bay is rocky, shallow and exposed, and is now used only by native craft. The harbour is on the west of Pharos and partly formed by a breakwater (built 1871-1873 and prolonged 1906-1907), two miles long. The breakwater starts opposite the promontory of Ras et-Tin, on which is a lighthouse, 180 ft. above the sea, built by Mehemet Ali. Another breakwater starts from the Gabbari side, the opening between the two works being about half a mile. A number of scattered rocks lie across the entrance, but through them two fairways have been made, one 600 ft. wide and 35 ft. deep, the other 300 ft. wide and 30 ft. deep. The enclosed water is divided into an outer and inner harbour by a mole, 1000 yds. long, projecting northwest from the southern shore. The inner harbour covers 464 acres. It is lined for two and a half miles by quays, affording accommodation for ships drawing up to 28 ft. The outer harbour (1400 acres water area) is furnished with a graving dock, completed in 1905, 520 ft. long, and with quays and jetties along the Gabbari foreshore. Their construction was begun in 1906.

Alexandria is linked by a network of railway and telegraph lines to the other towns of Egypt, and there is a trunk telephone line to Cairo. The city secured in 1906 a new and adequate water-supply, modern drainage works having been completed the previous year. Being the great entrepot for the trade of Egypt, the city is the headquarters of the British chamber of commerce and of most of the merchants and companies engaged in the development of the Delta. About 90% of the total exports and imports of the country pass through the port, though the completion, in 1904, of a broad-gauge railway connecting Cairo and Port Said deflected some of the cotton exports to the Suez Canal route. The staple export is raw cotton, the value of which is about 80% of all the exports. The principal imports are manufactured cotton goods and other textiles, machinery, timber and coal. The value of the trade of the port increased from L. 30,000,000 in 1900 to L. 46,000,000 in 1906. In the same period the tonnage of the ships entering the harbour rose from 2,375,000 to 3,695,000. Of the total trade Great Britain supplies from 35 to 40% of the imports and takes over 50% of the exports. Among the exports sent to England are the great majority of the 80,000,000 eggs annually shipped (see also Economy of Egypt.)

The population of the city (1907) was 332,246 or including the suburbs, about 400,000. The foreigners numbered over 90,000. The majority of these were Greeks, Italians, Syrians, Armenians and other Levantines, though almost every European and Oriental nation is represented.

 ”

[edit] Alien city

“ As native influences, however, began to reassert themselves in the Nile valley, Alexandria gradually became an alien city, more and more detached from Egypt; ”
This sounds like it should be "more detached from Rome", but I'm not sure. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by CatherineMunro (talk • contribs).
What is meant here is that Alexandria remained in many ways a Graeco-Roman city, part of the classical European cultural sphere, while the surrounding country turned somewhat away from it, so that Alexandria became something of a foreign entity in its own country. --Santetjan 9 July 2005 18:40 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding the Library of Alexandria

“ The story of the destruction of the library by the Arabs is first told by Bar-hebraeus (Abulfaragius), a Christian writer who lived six centuries later; and it is of very doubtful authority. It is highly improbable that many of the 700,000 volumes collected by the Ptolemies remained at the time of the Arab conquest, when the various calamities of Alexandria from the time of Caesar to that of Diocletian are considered, together with the disgraceful pillage of the library in 389 under the rule of the Christian bishop, Theophilus, acting on Theodosius' decree concerning pagan monuments. ”

[edit] The story of Abulfaragius

“ John the Grammarian, a famous Peripatetic philosopher, being in Alexandria at the time of its capture, and in high favour with `Amr, begged that he would give him the royal library.

`Amr told him that it was not in his power to grant such a request, but promised to write to the caliph for his consent. Omar, on hearing the request of his general, is said to have replied that if those books contained the same doctrine with the Qur'an, they could be of no use, since the Qur'an contained all necessary truths; but if they contained anything contrary to that book, they ought to be destroyed; and therefore, whatever their contents were, he ordered them to be burnt.

Pursuant to this order, they were distributed among the public baths, of which there was a large number in the city, where, for six months, they served to supply the fires.

 ”

I have added this section and also kept previous one.

The famous Library of Alexandria had been destroyed much earlier - in 3rd century during a civil war in the time of the Roman Emperor Aurelian. The myth that the Arabs destroyed it was a lie invented by 13th century Christian propagandists. Source: [Sword of Prophet, writer: Robert Goldston, Pg 56, The Dial Press New York, 1979] --Itsalif 21:16, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Arabic not native

Arabic isn't the native language of Egypt; the sentence comparing it with (among others) Greek is highly misleading, since Greek has been spoken there for far longer than Arabic. Coptic is actually the language with the best claim to be "native" (it evolved from ancient Egyptian languages), but even that is as wrong as saying that English is the native language of the Anglo-Saxons. But I can't really think of a better phrase. "Arabic is the dominant language" perhaps? "majority language"? Suggestions please. PML. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.16.172.8 (talk • contribs).

Arabic is both the official language and the language spoken by the indigenous (i.e. Egyptian) population. It is put next to Greek, amongst others, as Greek is spoken by a number of foreigners (and maybe some clergymen?), not by the Egypt-born population, give or take a few exceptions. To say that Arabic is Egypt's native language nowadays is like saying that English is Britain's native language, which is true unless the concept of of 'native' is stretched to its limits. --Santetjan 9 July 2005 18:36 (UTC)

[edit] Some things to think about

History to present day.

Think the Egyptian Revolution, Suez Crisis (i.e. when did the British leave?)

Dunc_Harris|☺ 11:19, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] The British Occupation

The entry narrating the justification of the British invasion is biased and rather vague on the details. Either do not attempt to justify anything in this entry or narrate it in more depth. In its current form it is unsatisfactory. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Karmish (talk • contribs)

[edit] OtherUses template

Please change the article to use Template:OtherUses instead of Template:otheruses it currently uses. The OtherUses template has information about the contents of the article.

{{OtherUses|info=information about the contents of the article}}

For a sample use of this template refer to the articles Alabama or Algiers--—The preceding unsigned comment was added by DuKot (talk • contribs) .

Note that that functionality is now at {{otheruses1}}. {{OtherUses}} redirects to {{otheruses}}, and is deprecated.--Srleffler 18:41, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] American English

Can we please, wherever possible, try and avoid Americanisms which always give English prose such a vulgar, uneducated flavour. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.42.252.250 (talk • contribs)

While you may well have a point, such a sweeping and critical remark should come with some examples. Also, Americans are not all vulgar and uneducated and we do not have a monopoly on such perspectives; I've seen "The Benny Hill Show". Cranston Lamont 21:52, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tarek El Hadidi

One of the most significant characters of todays modern 'Alexandrians' is Tarek El Hadidi, a half German business man with many talents and dreams. Having travelled and lived all around the world during his still young years (born 1973), El Hadidi says he is determined to give Alexandria back what it used to be: the pearl of the mediteranian and the most important city in the middle east and Egypt: the cradle of civilisation. "It is about giving the world the chance to witness (or even live) a city where so much has happened which changed the worlds order and lasted for thousands of years until our present time. This citys real ancient influence on the modern world, is still unknown to most people and even Scientists crave to discover its secrets: Finding Alexander the greats tomb for example, just to give you an idea. It's the connection of antiquity with todays life which makes Alexandria a must have in todays search of whatever mankind dreams to achieve: Romance, power, fortune, adventure, life style, traditions just to name a few." He says Alexandria is seeing a total eclipse of which one side is already visible to the international public but the other is not. It is this invisble rebirth into modern times in many fields El Hadidi says, which is the most exciting and he claims to be capable of showing only who he calls 'the willing' what is meant by it. Secrets are there to be kept, he ads. Interviewed by M. Feuerherdt, November 2005. m.feuerherdt@lycos.com, no copyright. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.47.127.225 (talk • contribs)

[edit] PLEASE READ AND UPDATE ALEXANDRIA ARTICLE

99 times out of 100 I am satisfied if not impressed with the compreheniveness and level of detail in Wikipedia and it's 1,000,000 articles in general. That is what made this article all the more shocking to me. I am not really very good at creating or ediing articles, but I had to make what I considered to be a much needed (emergency) addition to the article. There was basically no information on the modern city in the article which is quite frankly egregious for a city of Alexandrias prominence and renown. It is after all Egypt's second city with well over three million people, not some desert backwater. I hope someone reads my appeal to add an entire section dealing with todays Alexandria as my modifications were barebones according to my skill at editing articles PLEASE READ THIS AND UPDATE!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.146.173.207 (talk • contribs)

I was looking forward to read about this great city, but found the article to short. Some locals should write here, and tell us more about Alexandria. It's quite fascinating to think about how this city developed, from ancient towards modern time, and how buildings where built on top of old buildings and ruins through the time. Ironicaly Alexandria had the greatest libary ever, which disappeared in the 600's. Ships from all over the world entered the harbour, and they had to give away all the books that was on the ship. They got a copy back, and the original books stayed in the libary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.203.8.61 (talk • contribs)

[edit] Modern Alexandria

Great for the history of Alexandria, but could use more information on what the city is like today. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Poiubvcx888 (talk • contribs)

Not only today, but something about the great changes that have come over it in the past century. Cranston Lamont 21:55, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Start Talking about Modern Alexandria

Obviously most of the readers of Alexandria's article have noticed a shortage of information about modern Alexandria. Introducing myself as an Alexandrian, I shall start a new section under the title of Modern Alexandria, but actually I'm not good at writing and editing articles. So I shall post some images that may be stimulating for some wikipedians to start writing about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TheEgyptian (talk • contribs)

[edit] Theatre vs. Amphitheatre

I went ahead and changed the tag on the theatre image. A Roman amphitheatre is fully round. The theatre in the picture is clearly semi-circular, and therefore a regular theatre. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pyzmark (talk • contribs) 00:40, 11 March 2007 (UTC).

I just reverted the edit, as I found it's the name used commonly in Egypt for it.--TheEgyptian 23:54, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay fine. It makes perfect sense, since the article deals with modern Alexandria as well. However, and I think this is an acceptable compromise between historical accuracy and modern usage, I felt it necessary to add parentheses to the caption. It won't do to go misleading people on a Wikipedia article - it really is what Wikipedia is trying to avoid these days. Pyzmark 15:07, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The section about the neighbourhood

Looks like a list. I suggest writing a paragraph, talking about the famous neighbourhoods, and giving a link to the whole list.--TheEgyptian 22:47, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:AlexFlag.gif

Image:AlexFlag.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 19:01, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Five races of Alexandria?

The 6th paragraph in Durrell's Justine begins: "Five races, five languages, a dozen creeds: five fleets turning through their greasy reflections behind the harbour bar." The dozen creeds aside does anyone know whether Durrell was referring to five races and five languages on purpose or did he just draw a number from the air to represent Alexandria's diversity? Perhaps the five fleets have a historic basis? If anyone can clear this up I'd be much obliged. Ahassan05 15:48, 16 June 2007 (UTC)ahassan05

[edit] Number of foreigners

How many foreigners were there living in Alexandria before the 1960s? Does anyone know? And how they broke down into Italians, Greeks, Armenians...? Ahassan05 17:01, 16 June 2007 (UTC)ahassan05

[edit] Alexandrian "Accent"

The section on dialectical differences between the speech of Cairo and that of Alexandria needs to be re-written to follow the norms of the English language. It might also be better to just move it to a new article such as "Alexandrian Arabic" or to the existing article on Egyptian Arabic. -- Slacker 06:19, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Alexandria Language School (ALS)

I've added the school to the Educational Institutions, it is a widely known private school and I am one of its graduates. Its website is http://www.als-eg.net . nÅnNü 18:31, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

  • Yes, ALS is a famous school in Alex. Thanks Nour! --Lanternix 19:20, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Roman annexation

Sorry - new to this so unfamiliar with editing. However noticed that the section Roman Annexation includes the following:

"Julius Caesar dallied with Cleopatra in Alexandria in 47 BC, saw Alexander's body (quipping 'I came to see a king, not a collection of corpses' when he was offered a view of the other royal burials) and was mobbed by the rabble."

This quote was not Caesar but Octavian - atributed by both Suetonius (Augustus 18) and Dio Cassius.

Would have to agree with many other comments on this page that this article is in need of a sponsor. I think it would also be sensible to split into two separates articles on ancient and modern Alexandria. Just my view... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tomsants (talk • contribs) 21:17, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Enlarged gallery images

29-Oct-2007: In October, I enlarged gallery images in several articles, by using wikitables. Images become large enough to see trees or window areas, while expanding Internet data transfer only 60% (about 2 seconds longer @dial-up speed for 3 images):

 {| class=prettytable "width:380px;"
 |-
 |<!--Col1-->[[Image:Alexandria 2123021.jpg|299x120px]]
 |<!--Col2--> [[Image:Alexandria 2123028.jpg|299x120px]]
 |<!--Col3--><center>[[Image:Alexandr*2123097.jpg|299x120px]]</center>
 |-
 |<!--Col1-->Alexandria beach
 |<!--Col2-->[[Citadel of Qaitbay]]
 |<!--Col3-->[[Saad Zaghloul]] street in downtown Alexandria
 |}

The above 3-column wikitable formats as below:

 
Alexandria beach Citadel of Qaitbay Saad Zaghloul street in downtown Alexandria

Such wikitables stay within the right margin, on 800x600 screens. Column-comments ("-Col2-") help match the captions. I don't know why the "<gallery>" tag generates such tiny images (87px high), but at least the tiny images ("blur-boxes") always appear centered in their boxes, too tiny to upset the artistic balance of a page. With wikitables, some narrow images should be hand-centered (with leading non-breaks "&nbsp;&nbsp;" or "<center>"), to avoid crowding left-side of image cells. Larger images can be shown as 2-column tables: remember that in larger images, even a 5% further enlargement might clarify details: turning a blurred wall into a stone-work pattern. Often 270px-width is enough to reveal many details, for 2 images side-by-side. Anyway, wikitables help avoid the "blur-boxes" of the "<gallery>" tag, with minimal overhead. -Wikid77 14:09, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Flag

The city flag is incorrect, I wasn't able to find a correct picture on the internet, please remove or help change, thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.205.229.220 (talk) 22:56, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

The flag was correct!! Please, can some one upload the flag again? Mcwaly (talk) 00:10, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] No Mention of Cleopatra?

    I could argue that the single most famous, most important Alexandrian was the Queen of Egypt, Cleopatra VII Thea Philopater of the Ptolemaic Dynasty. This woman was one of the most famous and fascinating women of all time: plays were written about her - including ones by William Shakespeare and George Bernard Shaw; she was celebrated in numerous books, operas, masterpieces of painting and sculpture, poems, motion pictures, etc.
    Is not Cleopatra a world icon? Am I wrong in supposing that the Alexandrians have an affection for the legendary Queen as much as Amsterdamers have for Rembrandt Van Rijn or Philadelphians have for Benjamin Franklin? Alexandria is the backdrop of politics, ambition, romance and intrigue during the years of Julius Ceasar, Cleopatra, Mark Antony, and Octavius (later, Augustus)Ceasar. Is there a meaningful way this can be reflected or at least referenced in the article? Buddmar (talk) 03:27, 27 April 2008 (UTC)buddmar