Talk:Alcuin

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This article incorporates public domain text from: Cousin, John William (1910). A Short Biographical Dictionary of English Literature. London, J.M. Dent & sons; New York, E.P. Dutton.

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This article does not mentions Alcuin's birthname. I believe it was Ealhwine (or something of the like), but can anybody confirm that? Oswax 18:02, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

It was a redirect. Added it to the opening. Variant. --Wetman 21:11, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Dialogue of Pepin (son of Charlemagne) and Alcuin, 2 Homosexual love poetry 3 Pepin, Charlemagne's son 4 Astrology 5 Alcuin Society 6 Punctuation 7 Alcuin and the filioque

[edit] Dialogue of Pepin (son of Charlemagne) and Alcuin,

Are you sure this is the title, because there is no record of Charlemagne having a son named Pepin in the Charlemagne entry. Might you be confused with Pepin, Charlemagne's Father?

The latin title is Disputatio Pipini, though the ascription to Alcuin in in dispute, and is now generally held to be erroneous. I wonder if the section on the Disputatio should go altogether, in fact, as nobody now seriously considers it to be Alcuin's? Cursitor 16:50, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Homosexual love poetry

Someone added several paragraphs arguing that Alcuin was homosexual, citing a poem of his as evidence. Unfortunately, I'm having trouble finding any other material supporting this elsewhere, and the poem does not actually suggest any relationship with the addressee. I added an 'unreferenced' tag hoping that someone would cite some source(s) for this hypothesis, but none have been forthcoming one week later. I feel the section in question should go, as it appears to be unverifiable and potentially original research. Alcuin 15:48, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Either way, that section is disproportionately lengthy in relation to the rest of the article, and should probably be cut. Cursitor 16:49, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

In the interests of intellectual honesty, after this entire section was flagged then suppressed, I googled "Alcuin homoerotic" and found a reference at the respected Medieval Sources webnsite, and added a quote from John Boswell. The instinct to suppress unattractive material often leads to disreputable conduct. The rest of this article lacks the depth this subject requires. With a less flimsy, more extensive context, the homosexuality will become less prominent. --Wetman 21:30, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm the one who deleted it - I've got nothing against adding material that is well-sourced. I started trying to just edit out or tag the unsourced material, but then realized the whole section had been tagged for months without anyone working on it, and assumed there was just a lack of interest. There is still a tag for a quote that needs a cite, and I hope someone will track that down (because it should be deleted otherwise). I agree that any disparity between space devoted to the topic and the subject as a whole is the result of the article as a whole being woefully inadequate -- this could be a major article. Sam 21:59, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I have added a sentence covering homo-erotic poetry - this isn't original research but is covered in mainstream academic literature (have added a couple of references). I'm not sure there is more direct evidence (from contemporary sources) that can be added to support the thesis of Alcuin's homosexuality. Passionate letter-writing and poetry was common in the high middle ages, but Boswell (among others) have suggested that the tone in Alcuin is even more enthusaistic than standard practice. Contaldo80 (talk) 12:43, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pepin, Charlemagne's son

Charlemagne did have a son named Pepin by an unnamed concubine. He conspired with certain Frankish nobles to depose his father during his war with the Huns. Apparently the plot was uncovered and as punishment he was forced into the monastery at Prüm to live out his life as a holy man. He was also hunchbacked. This is all according to Einhard.

Cupbearer 03:44, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Quite true. Pepin is real enough, but the attribution of the Disputatio Pipini to Alcuin is very questionable.

--Cursitor 12:32, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Astrology

I've never come across this before, and the quotation from Berlinski seems somewhat vague. Does anyone have a primary source for this? --Cursitor 12:34, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alcuin Society

The Alcuin Society, included under external links, apparently has nothing to do with Alcuin except the name. The Society caters to book lovers, not (for example) lovers of Carolingian literature. I believe it detracts from, rather than adding to, the entry. Does anyone else agree, or disagree? Katherine Tredwell 18:58, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Punctuation

Please help improve this article or section by expanding it. Further information might be found on the talk page or at requests for expansion. (February 2007)

It is alleged in the book "Eats, Shoots & Leaves" (p. 76) that Alcuin created a system of "positure" or punctuation, including an early question mark. -- Beland 02:37, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Alcuin and the filioque

I've removed the entire section on the "Filioque" from the article. In the first place, it appears to be referencing mostly Spanish Adoptionism, not the Filioque (despite the lines about the "Symbol"). In the second place, I am not sure that it is correctly translated, and in the third place it looks like OR. ECKnibbs 20:13, 9 July 2007 (UTC)