Talk:Al Jolson
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[edit] King Kong
Just for the record, Al Jolson never sings the theme. He does however, sing as New York is first shown to the audience. ViceroyInterus 23:51, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
- Should that be listed under "filmography"? He's not actually in the movie. Adam Bishop 05:16, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
- It should be there his vocie appears in the film.
[edit] Date of Birth
Al's date of birth has long been in dispute. However, I was under the impression that it was settled when his draft card was uncovered, and it showed his birthdate as May 1886 -- omitting the date. Unfortunately I can't access the site where the draft card is accessible. However, once I do, I think might want to make reference to that. I do know that he listed his name on this draft card as "albert jolson."--Mantanmoreland 18:51, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
A possible reason for differences in birth year: Russia did not adopt the Gregorian calendar until 1918. — Bobopaedia 16:41, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Reference to Jewish Non-Support of Coolidge
I'm not sure of the relevancy or sourcing of the "most Jews in the arts didn't support Coolidge" remark. It's probably true, but I wonder if it is a proper comment to make. What do you think? Any thoughts on this --Mantanmoreland 21:44, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Racism?
Blackface is today viewed by many as racially insensitive." My concern is that "viewed by many" as opposed to 'virtually all' seems to dull the inherent racism of blackface. I suggest a change, and would like to hear the thoughts of others. 75.47.152.82 02:27, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
- "Viewed by many" is accurate. "Virtually all," as well as "inherent racism," is your politically correct opinion. This article is a fluff piece, obviously written by a fan. Jolson had his faults, which are not mentioned, such as his monstrous ego, but blackface was not one of them. Blackface is a theatre artform. Though considered unacceptable by people who don't know better, it was not used to denegrate African-Americans. In fact, blackface was often used, especially by Jolson, to convey pathos. "Mammy," Jolson's signature song, was dramatic and serious. Even comedic use of blackface was just another stage caricature. Jews, farmers, rich people, the British, the French, children, women (drag), Indians -- in fact, everyone -- were targets, and in an age when people could laugh at themselves -- unlike today, when being touchy is fashionable -- such caricatures were appreciated for their mimic skill. Only those who are ignorant of historical context or those who wish to show off their superior sensibilities are offended by this artform, which may be obsolete but is, on its own merits, a significant part of the entertainment canon. — J M Rice 13:33, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
On the other hand, a sense of "historical context" tells you that "blackface" comes from the tradition of the minstrel show. Isn't it accurate to say that minstrel shows perpetuated a convenient and cruel racial stereotype and, thus, were "inherently racist"? That doesn't mean minstrel shows weren't skilled entertainment or art, but they were what they were; there is no reason not to admit that out of fear of being labelled overly sensitive or "politically correct." Jeffmatt 05:53, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
- An issue of interest is how many black performers actually used blackface makeup to make themselves appear darker. While doing research for a paper, I came across that detail more than once in more than one place.68.36.127.193 01:05, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
- The previous comments by 92.10.26.26 have serious problems: 1) attempting to discredit facts by simply calling the author a "fan" of the person discussed is nonsensical since fans are the best source of facts about celebrities; 2) The writer says that the bio includes "...uncertifiable excuses to excuse any possible racism." He assumes that Jolson was racist even without explanation or examples - and a failure to (certifiably) accuse Jolson of racism is therefore a gross error. But if the writer wants to prove someone is racist, let him do it alone without asking his "fans" or others to help him; 3) stating "I've never heard of a 'Jewface' show" hints at the rational for the previous two problems: this writer is so obsessed with finding anti-black racism anywhere possible, he will even stoop to shamelessly creating a new (anti-Jewish) racist phrase to make his point. Some call that hypocricy.
- The writer also states that the "article is too biased in Jolson's favor... ." Yet that implies discussing him or labeling someone a racist is equivalent to a contest or other competition. This is not a game site and we're not supposed to keep score. If he has information to add he should present it, not simply imply that Jolson hasn't had enough dirt thrown at him.
- He added "considering how controversial he is today there should be some mention of the racist allegations." Unfortunately for the writer, he gives us no such allegations claiming that Al Jolson was "racist." The writer just assumes these allegations exist, as if it were in today's newspaper. But there are no allegations that Al Jolson was racist in his Wiki or other biographies.
- Louise Rainer, an Austrian, won an academy award playing a Chinese peasant in The Good Earth; Michael Jackson won Grammies after bleaching his skin and bobbing his nose to look more white; black actresses put on blond wigs and wear pigtails; and black actors play Santa Clause. Are they racist? Is a child racist for dressing up as an indian for halloween? Racism may often exist in the eyes of the beholder only.
- I'd be interested in reading what comments the writer had about other clearly racist movies like "Birth of a Nation". - Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 04:29, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
I believe that there is here confusion here between intentional and unintentional racism; that is to say, an act need not be intentionally racist in order to be classified as racist. Take, for example, a 3-year-old caucasian child uttering the slur: "That's a chink, mommy," upon seeing a Korean person--that child most likely is not be aware that the word "chink" is almost universally considered a slur, yet the child's act should still be considered racist. Regardless of whether or not Al Jolson consciously intended to demean black americans, his acts were demeaning acts. Indeed, that black americans felt obligated to darken themselves in order to perform blackface indicates that the entire practice itself was based upon powerful ideals of what colors people should look like ("black" not "brown"; "white" not "pink") and how those people of those colors should act--ideals that were most-likely so powerful that even those sympathetic were unaware of their being blind. The above argument, which seems to be about whether or not Jolson was a racist is in fact an argument about whether or not Jolson was an intentional racist (which, I would argue--considering his upbringing--he was not). That he was an unintentional racist seems irrefutable (which is not to say that I don't expect someone to yet try and refute it). 68.49.252.53 (talk) 20:07, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
There's nothing to refute, since your creative term "unintentional racism" is an oxymoron. "Racism" must be intentional. It can't be unintentional or accidental - it must be deliberate. The basic definitions shared by all dictionaries are: "1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others. 2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination. 3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiwatcher1 (talk • contribs) 06:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Edits from Banned User HC and IPs
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Wikipedia's banning policy states that "Any edits made in defiance of a ban may be reverted to enforce the ban, regardless of the merits of the edits themselves. As the banned user is not authorized to make those edits, there is no need to discuss them prior to reversion." |
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2) Be on the look out for any edits from these IP addresses:
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[edit] Removed Spam Link
I've removed a link to the "Great Song Stylists Site" (http://great-song-stylists-uk.com/) which is just a spam link - completely unrelated to anything to do with Al Jolson. Perhaps it was once a real site who's owner let the domain registration lapse? Pinglis 08:16, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Citations & References
See Wikipedia:Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the <ref(erences/)> tags Nhl4hamilton (talk) 10:50, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Tokyo hospital.jpg
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[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Jolson Sings Again2.jpg
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[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Jolson Wonder Bar2.jpg
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[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Jolson as mexican.jpg
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[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Jolson blackface clip.jpg
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[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Jolson Wonder Bar2.jpg
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[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Jolson blackface clip.jpg
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