Talk:Al-Shaykh Muwannis

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[edit] POV

All I see in this article is a Palestinian POV I am sure that there also other POVs on what happened there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shrike (talk • contribs) 16:33, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

This is stub, so please help expand the article by providing sources that we might be able to use. Could you be more specific about how the article is POV? Thanks. Tiamut 01:14, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
Its POV becouse it represent only Palestinian POV and use only Palestinain sources.I will try and search other POVs on what happened there.--Shrike (talk) 22:12, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
I agree that we need more sourcing and better in-line citation and will work on that. The references currently only cite the work of Walid Khalidi, but the external links include an article in Haaretz by Esther Zandberg and three links to articles by the Israeli group Zochrot. I don't see how these are Palestinian sources or represent only the Palestinian POV. Perhaps we can add more information from these, in addition to the sources you (or I) find in the coming days? Tiamut 12:59, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

So Shrike, I added some more references and doubled the size of the article. New references include:

  1. Daniel Monterescu and Dan Rabinowitz (2007). Mixed Towns, Trapped Communities: Historical Narratives, Spatial Dynamics, Gender Relations and Cultural Encounters in Palestinian-Israeli Towns. Ashgate Publishing, Ltd., 298. ISBN 0754647323.
  2. Benny Morris (2004). The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem. Cambridge University Press, 127-128. ISBN 0521009677.
  3. Haim Yacobi (2004). Constructing a Sense of Place: Architecture and the Zionist Discourse. Ashgate Publishing, Ltd., 199. ISBN 0754634272.
  4. Sandra M. Sufian and Mark LeVine (2007). Reapproaching Borders: New Perspectives on the Study of Israel-Palestine. Rowan & Littlefield, 298. ISBN 074254639X.
  5. Ilan Pappe (1999). The Israel/Palestine Question. Routledge, 199. ISBN 041516947X.

In light of these changes which introduce the views of many different scholars, I think that the POV tag should removed. Do you agree? Tiamut 16:17, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

No, sources like Pappe don't make the article less POV it makes it more. Pappe is ardent anti-Zionist that helped to falsify massacre. You did nothing to make the article less POV quite the opposite so the tag will stay.For example when you portray the City council plan about the road you bring only one POV and state as a fact that land was owned by the village. You don't bring the POV of the City council. So you made the article much worse than it was before.

You indeed brought many sources but all of them want to convey only only one POV.--Shrike (talk) 18:37, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Ilan Pappe is a partisan source, but he's a reliable source per Wikipedia policies (i.e. he's an expert in his field, his work is peer reviewed, etc.) WP:NPOV does not preclude the use of sources who express an opinion, and in any case, Pappe is used here as a source for the kidnapping of village notables (which is also mentioned by Benny Morris). So this information is also verifiable.
I think you're being just a little unfair. I did add all of these many different sources in response to your request for better sourcing and the introduction of multiple POVs. None of these authors is Palestinian (which was what you took issue with). If you can provide sources that you would like to see included, we can work together on doing that. (Or you can add them yourself). If you cannot offer any specific examples of what you would like to see included, cited to reliable sources, I think the POV tag should be removed. Tiamut 18:59, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
By the way, to address your concern about the lands the village claimed as its own being presented just as though they were their own, I have added "what they claimed were" before "village lands". I can't quote the City's perspective because I don't see it cited in the sources I have and can't find it elsewhere. If you do have a source for it, please provide it. Thanks. Tiamut 19:51, 14 January 2008 (UTC)