Talk:Al-Jahiz

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Contents 1 Al-Jahiz and Evolution 2 Category:Antisemitism (People) 3 Does al-jahiz was black or not ? 4 The reference previously sourced 5 islamic natural selection?????

[edit] Al-Jahiz and Evolution

The information citing what alJahiz wrote about evolution was sourced from Mehmet Baydrakar's article listed in the references. The transcript of the encounter program in the reference below Baydrakar's is from a short presentation given at a seminar. By necessity it had to be a brief summary of what was written in Baydrakar's article. You have to be careful with this sort of article. Baydrakar is a theologian not a scientist. His article shows a mixture of Lamarckian, Darwinian and theistic ideas. This mixing of science and religion is common among apologists for the Qur'an. While al-Jahiz and other Muslim scholars had evolutionary ideas, the possibility of others overstating what he actually wrote should be considered.Ib9s1nd 23:24, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

The way this section is written is misleading. Al-Jahiz did not say what follows after the preface "Al-Jahiz wrote the following on the struggle for existence". As the above user has pointed out, these are the words of Gary Dargan, an Australian geologist, who is paraphrasing his interpretation of Al-Jahiz' work. Furthermore, in the sentence immediately preceding this, a philosophy paper is cited as evidence that Al-Jahiz created an early theory of natural selection. I've just read that paper, and it says only that Al-Jahiz described a "struggle for existence". There is no reference to natural selection. I'll make the appropriate changes. TheGoodOak (talk) 16:06, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Antisemitism (People)

It has been proposed that the category Category:Antisemitism_(People) be deleted. Since it has been proposed to add this article to that category, please consider voting on it at: Wikipedia:Categories for deletion#Category:Antisemitism (People)

[edit] Does al-jahiz was black or not ?

We know about his book "on the superiority of the blacks on the whites", this book makes that many believe that he was of african descent but in the book of Bernard Lewis (Race and Slavery) he is quoted saying

• "Like the crow among mankind are the Zanj for they are the worst of men and the most vicious of creatures in character and temperament." Kitab al-Hayawan, vol. 2
• "We know that the Zanj (blacks) are the least intelligent and the least discerning of mankind, and the least capable of understanding the consequences of actions." Kitab al-Bukhala
• "They [the Shu`ubiyya] maintain that eloquence is prized by all people at all times - even the Zanj, despite their dimness, their boundless stupidity, their obtuseness, their crude perceptions and their evil dispositions, make long speeches." Al-Bayan wa`l-tabyin, vol. 3

So I ask:Does al-jahiz was black or not ? Roger_Smith —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.77.139.15 (talk) 18:21, 6 December 2006 (UTC).

"Zanj" does not mean black, don't be ignorant. Their word for black was 'sudd', and is reflected in the name for the country Sudan, Bilad al-Sudan ("lands of the Blacks").. Zanj simply referred to an area in East Africa or Zanzibar and possibly its slaves.. After more research, I indeed believe that he was Zanj himself and that his criticism of them was merely satire.. He was mocking the silly views which were rampant at that time period.. The Zanj, as a way to keep unwanted meddlers away from their land, spread stories and rumors about themselves involving cannibalism, etc, in order to scare people away. Which didn't really work that well, but did to a certain extent.Taharqa 18:22, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The reference previously sourced

The author of that webpage referenced himself as proof, and claimed that the Prophet Muhammad is African...no further comments. MB 21:25, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually, Al-Jahiz himself states that the prophet's grandfather was black, but that may not be what you were talking about..Taharqa 22:31, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] islamic natural selection?????

This is the reason why i have removed any refernces to islamic ideas on natural selection, yet another massive, gross misrepresentation of the so called "islamic science", clearly demonstrating that once again the proffessionals of islamic science have absolutely no clue about science themselves, or history and are only intersted in distortions of massive proportions.

here's little biology lesson for whoever writes this nonense about nautral selection and evoltuion on islamic thought. what is natural selection, well what darwin told is this species exist within a particular environment, then ones that posses certain charateristics, that is ones they are born with will be able to feed themselves better and survive and reproduce more then the species that do not have those traits, hence the fundemental principle of evolution though natural selection, nautral selection acts on individuals, but only populations can evolve, as Darwin said those species are naturally selected. So where does this apply here. Evolutionary thought has existed for millienia, what Darwin did is he provided us with the framework of how evolution happened, natural selection, as mentioned above. Nowhere has any muslim philosopher provided an ounce of a description of evolution through natural selection. all they have done is implied that certain species evoloved from others., but thats not natural selection. Natural selection is the framework within which evolution happens. Last and most importantly, Darwin went about scientifically proving natural selection, through his studies of species on the Galápagos Islands. He did not invoke God or any angles in his thesis, since thats not science, but mere religious philosophy, and he thesis consisted of several books, not a couple of paragraphs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.36.181.171 (talk) 10:01, 29 January 2008 (UTC)