Talk:Akira Kurosawa

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1 Chusingun
2 RE: mistake
3 Original versus English Titles
4 Link suggestions
5 info box
6 Ran (film) (Nomination)
7 Kurosawa's brother
8 Miller's Crossing?
9 Cultural depictions of Akira Kurosawa
10 His Influence
11 movie list
12 kurosawa pd?
13 Finance and revenue
14 Public domain

[edit] Chusingun

Why is there no mention of Chusingun, which was also influential to George Lucas? It bothers me that no one has taken the time to pay homage to this director by even posting a non-objective review. Then again, I should probably get to the library and check out the movie myself.

[edit] RE: mistake

The Author of this article credits Stray Dog as Kurosawa's first collaboration with Toshiro Mifune, when it is in fact Kurosawa's breakthrough film, Drunken Angel which first starred the then unknown Mifune in a Kurosawa film. Drunken Angel was released in April of 1948 while Stray Dog was released in October of 1949. By this point Kurosawa had already collaborated with mifune a second time in The Quiet Duel. I believe it is important to recognize the significance of Drunken Angel, It is a spectacular film that is tremendously important to Japanese cinema and it is also responsible for launching Mifune's career as a actor and also introducing Kurosawa as a truly talented and skilled director. Donald Ritchie notes the importance of this film in his book, The Films of Akira Kurosawa. "Japanese critics have agreed that this picture is to Japanese cinema as Paisa or Bicycle Thieves is to Italian, that it perfectly epitomizes a period, its hopes, its fears: that it marks the major 'breakthrough' of a major directorial talent who has finally 'realized' himself."(Ritchie, 47) I will try to formalize this correction within the actual article, but am new to Wikipedia, so if anyone reads this and notices that the error was left uncorrected than please assume I was unable to do so and please correct it if you are able.

Any quoted material is taken from The Films of Akira Kurosawa by Donald Ritchie.

[edit] Original versus English Titles

I realise that this is the English page but I humbly believe that the original movie titles should be used. There should still be redirects from the international titles. Microsnot 01:48, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Since this is the English edition, I think the English titles should be the main titles used (if only so that people can find the films in video stores), but I think you're right that if the original title is actually different (e.g. Throne of Blood was originally Cobweb Castle in Japanese) there should defenitely be a note about that somewhere, maybe in brackets after the English title. This should be fairly easy to do. The Singing Badger 12:11, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Definately not trolling but from looking at imdb.com, I would like to know why Madadayo instead of Not yet, Yojimbo instead of The Bodyguard, Ikiru instead of To Live, etc. Surely the international titles should be used instead of whatever it's released as on video in North American. It just seems a little inconsistent. Microsnot 12:56, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Yes, but Wikipedia, unlike the IMDB, is a multi-language encyclopedia. The IMDB has only one entry for a film, so they have to give each film its original title. But Wikipedia (in an ideal world at least) has different entries for each film in every language. If a user speaks Japanese and wants to know the original titles, they can just go to the Japanese Wikipedia article on Kurosawa. And if a user doesn't speak Japanese, the original titles are just pretty sounds and don't mean anything. That's my justification, anyway! The Singing Badger 20:58, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Reply to: The Singing Badger 20:58, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC) Which is what I'm saying. Madadayo, Yojimbo, Ikiru and a couple of others are the "Japanese titles" rather than literally translated/international/subtitled titles. Microsnot 01:16, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Isn't that the opposite of what I'm saying?! This could go round in circles... but if you want to change the titles, I won't revert it, but I do think the English titles should be made VERY clear, via redirects and so forth. This is supposed to be a site for English speakers. The Singing Badger 01:27, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

These issues are bigger than one director. They apply to all directors, authors etc. So, I suggest debating at Wikipedia:Manual of Style for Japan-related articles. Fg2 02:12, Sep 16, 2004 (UTC)

If you use whatever is the most common international title and the original english translation of the japanese title (in brackets if different) it would be most helpful. Often a title of a US release is different from the UK or other European release which is often the same as the original. I haven't noticed much variation in the UK from the Japanese titles of any Kurosawa release. DjDrAkiraGonzo 07:17, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Link suggestions

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[edit] info box

Does anyone feel that the quote in the infobox seems a bit oversized and out of place? Shawnc 04:57, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree with you it is rather too long. --DannyWilde 05:24, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

It's not that it's long, but it should be reformatted. Palm_Dogg 20:43, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't think we need an infobox at all Estrose 21:54, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ran (film) (Nomination)

FYI Ran is up for FA status and the vote so far is 8-0 in favor. Palm_Dogg 18:36, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kurosawa's brother

I am watching the PBS "Masterpiece Theater" entitled 'Kurosawa'. It mentions a brother, whose suicide may have influenced Kurosawa's career. Does anyone know more about this? Does anyone think that this deserves mention in the main article? Bill Jefferys 01:19, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I think it does. Kurosawa's Something Like an Autobiography goes into some detail about his brother and their relationship. If you're watching the documentary made in ~2000, Paul Scofield reads various portions of this book. Z Wylld 20:37, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Miller's Crossing?

Article states that Yojimbo was the basis for the Coen Brothers' Miller's Crossing. While there are some parallels between the two, I believe it's generally conceded that MC is primarily based on the works of Dashiell Hammett. I feel this reference ought to be either weakened or removed.

On a similar note if you look at the Yojimbo (film) article you'll see that it is not official that Yojimbo is based off of Red Harvest, the Red Harvest says about the same. Highlandlord 12:19, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Miller's Crossing is based on the novels The Glass Key and Red Harvest by Hammett. 145.222.138.134 16:37, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cultural depictions of Akira Kurosawa

I've started an approach that may apply to Wikipedia's Core Biography articles: creating a branching list page based on in popular culture information. I started that last year while I raised Joan of Arc to featured article when I created Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc, which has become a featured list. Recently I also created Cultural depictions of Alexander the Great out of material that had been deleted from the biography article. Since cultural references sometimes get deleted without discussion, I'd like to suggest this as a model for the editors here. Regards, Durova 15:59, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] His Influence

"Remake" has a specific meaning, and to say that A Bug's Life or Three Amigos is a remake of Seven Samurai is just factually incorrect. "Inspired by" is also questionable; it implies that the one film was the impetus for the creation of another. "Influenced by" is pretty clearly a better choice of words. Also, "huge influence" is rather unprofessional language. I tried to fix this stuff, but it all got reverted. I hope somebody else will make an effort, as this section is a joke right now. 68.183.204.155 18:13, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Here's a few reviews indicating some of the remakes and retellings, inlcuding A Bug's Life. It's common knowledge, really, owing to the fact that it can be sussed by watching the movies. And here's Wikipedia's own definition of remake, which gives the term some room for variations which would seem to include replacing people with bugs and some story variation. A compromise of "loosely remade as" might work. I'd also like to see some evidence that Kurosawa helped "create" the Western seeing as the genre is older than the advent of cinema.
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/gperf/shows/kurosawa/multimedia/m_7samurai.html
http://otherstuff.laurelandhardycentral.com/7samarai.html
http://www.dvdjournal.com/reviews/s/sevensamurai_cc.shtml
http://www.jamesbowman.net/reviewDetail.asp?pubID=407
http://www.dvdverdict.com/reviews/bugslifece.php
http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20010819/REVIEWS08/401010356/1023
Doctor Sunshine 21:27, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

You're right, Magnificent Seven launched the "Spagehetti Western" genre, I changed the article to reflect that. Bug's Life, etc. are not, by any reasonable definition, "remakes." However, you could mention that the influence of Seven Samurai is so wide as to show up in such diverse movies as Bug's Life, Three Amigos, etc., if you wanted to.

68.183.204.155 00:55, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Unless he grew a beard and moved to Italy he didn't help create the Spaghetti Western. Inspired or, your word, influenced would be more appropriate. And even then, the placement of that statment implies that it was The Magnificent Seven and/or Seven Samurai that sparked it as opposed to Kurosawa's samurai films in general or Yojimbo which was remade almost shot for shot into A Fist Full of Dollars which is considered one of the first Spahgetti Westerns.
Regarding A Bug's Life, Three Amigos, Battle Beyond the Stars, etc., Wikipedia goes by consenus and I'm not really looking to research this extensively but just those first few links I googled list them as remakes, unofficial remakes, refashionings and reworkings, all which warrant more direct summation than "influenced". --Doctor Sunshine 02:24, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Ok, change it so it's better. My bit on how it influenced Spaghetti Westerns isn't very good, I agree. And if you can find a major review that describes any of those movies as "remakes," I encourage you to list them as such.

68.183.204.155 19:40, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Done deal. Really, this section could stand plenty of additions, the more eclectic the better, I say. --Doctor Sunshine 22:18, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] movie list

anyone against setting up a table like on the Kinji Fukasaku page? could probably incorporate a small movie poster image as well. --AlexOv Shaolin 19:39, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

That was me. This was actually the next article I'd planned to do that on, though, as evidenced, I have not gotten around to that in the past couple months. If anyone gets to it before me the only things I would change is not linking the years (they're low value links according to MoS:L), stretching it out to 100 screen width (easily done) and maybe adding the ability to hide the whole thing — only because I've noticed a lot of FA film bios either do away with filmographies entirely or put links to them or condensed versions in the "see also" section; I think making it hidable and maybe transcluding it from a template article, like I've done at Seijun Suzuki, would be a better option. Doctor Sunshine 03:21, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I ended up doing this to the Takashi Miike, however i'm at a loss for info, especially for what the original Japanese characters are, what was your resource for finding them for the Fukasaku and Suzuki articles? --AlexOv Shaolin 20:34, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I used the JMDb. Just cut and paste the directors name in kanji (without spaces) into the search box. Miike's here. If you got his filmography from the IMDb it'll probably be missing some titles but you can usually line them up roughly by the dates and more specifically if you understand Japanese. I don't but I can usually figure it out from the hiragana and what few kanji I know. Also jisho.org is a great help if you want to confirm you've matched up the right title and get the macrons right. Figuring out the romaji with only the kana is something best left to a fluent Japanese reader but I'm sure there's a full filmography in English and romaji somewhere on the Internet. One thing, the Wiki table policy advises against using tables for living peoples filmographies, just because it's more difficult for most people to add new titles. Miike's prolific but he's popular enough that someone'll always be able to figure it out so that's no problem but just a heads up. Well done by the way. Doctor Sunshine 05:54, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

thanx, this is a little above my head though. i could probably handle kana but the kanji is too difficult for me. --AlexOv Shaolin 03:02, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

No worries. I'll maybe give it a shot at some point. Doctor Sunshine 09:29, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] kurosawa pd?

according to this all pre 1953 japanese movies are public domain, so the p.d. category should be added to more kurosawa articles, correct? --AlexOv Shaolin 04:54, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Affirmative. Doctor Sunshine 03:21, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

TRIVIA:

On one occasion Kurosawa got to meet John Ford, a director commonly said to be the most influential to Kurosawa. And not knowing what to say Ford simply said, "You really like rain." Kurosawa responded "You've really been paying attention to my films"

Didn´t he answer?: "you´ve NOT really been paying attention to my films"

Rain stands for sadness and agony in his movies - Kurosawa does not like rain

[edit] Finance and revenue

I would like to see more information here about how his films were financed, particularly in the 1950s and 1960s, and whether they made enough money at the box office to redeem his studio's indulgence with his dictatorial approach. The extras on Seven Samurai state that filmed was scheduled for three months, but ultimately took most of a year, with the final mud battle sequence shot in sleet filled mud in March. It also states the mill was rebuilt twice to get it to burn properly in the background of the dramatic baby rescue. Did this make financial sense for the studio, or was Kurosawa indulged as a matter of post-occupation national pride? MaxEnt (talk) 23:33, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Public domain

recently a japanese court ruled that kurosawa's early works (pre-1953) were no longer in public domain (previously it had been ruled that all pre-1953 films made in japan were PD), however there has yet to be a case in the USA that i'm aware of in which a work considered PD to our system is resigned a copyright, therefore it would naturally seem that in the USA, these films are still in PD. --AlexOv Shaolin 02:00, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

"were no longer in public domain (previously it had been ruled that all pre-1953 films made in japan were PD)": actually no, it weren't. General rule : anything that became PD (lost copyright protection) will stay so, in Japan as in USA. What happened exactly here is that a recent Japanese copyright law reform left some ambiguity for those works. Some wondered which law ruled the copyright expiration for those films: the pre-1970 copyright law ? the 1970-2003 one ? or the post-2003 one ?. For instance, if the 1970-2003 copyright law applied, then a film released in 1952 would have been public domain in 2002 (and if so, it would still be PD). But if the pre-1970 law still apply to those work, it would be different (that would be 38 years after author's death). This ambiguity is now clarified (and as usual, not in the interest of the public/commons).
That's why some (ie. a few wikipedians, Cosmo Content) have believed that those pre-1953 AK films may be public domain (1953 = 2003 - 50 years: works that may have fallen in the public domain before the 2003 reform). The September 14, 2007, the Tokyo District Court ruling just clarified the situation: films released before 1970 are and had alway been under the pre-1970 copyright law conditions regarding IP longevity, meaning that a 1952 film never was public domain, and won't be until author death + 38 years. Therefore, Akira Kurosawa films ar not, and never were, public domain. They will be PD on December 31, 2036. Yes, too bad.
"it would naturally seem that in the USA, these films are still in PD" as stated above, those films never were PD; it's not a matter of "loosing the pd status" (that's impossible, yes). Furthermore en.wikipedia is not USA's wikipedia but the wikipedia written in English language. So even if the copyright status of those films was different in USA, it would be quite misleading to call them globally "pd" (and such an assertion wouldn't be very useful anyway, since en.wikipedia has a policy of accepting faire use pictures (as opposed to, say, de.wp, fr.wp and ja.wp)).
Now, we have a interesting question: Yasujirō Ozu released films before 1970 (and even before 1953, for that matter), and is dead 44 years ago...
I noted, my discoveries about the pre-1953 japanese films status on commons (the important part are the last two paragraphs): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Help_desk_archive/2007Apr#Are_pre-1953_Japaneses_films_ok_for_us_.3F

Hope that helped. Benjamin.pineau (talk) 14:23, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

PS: note that Cosmo Content may have appealed this recent ruling (I don't know, I hope they did). But for now we're left with this ruling. Benjamin.pineau (talk) 14:30, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Its a shame japan has been so closed-lipped on the subject of PD, so i dont buy the fact that the films might have never been declared PD, there are a few reports out which suggest otherwise[1], so to assume that these films were never assigned PD status at one_point_or_another without much existing documentation from the japanese government is probably too hasty. what we know is that in japan the films are no longer in PD, until a ruling occurs in the US there is no clear way to know. governments need to learn to document these kinds of things better, so we shouldnt be put in the situation to 'assume' which in this case we will have to do, regardless of the recent ruling. --AlexOv Shaolin 16:11, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes but please note that the contactmusic's article is not very complete or serious. They missed the fact that plaintiffs appealed to the Tokyo High Court, for instance. Also, and that show all the weirdness about protective copyright judgements and conspicuous relation to national industry support: in this case (First Trading Corp vs Paramount) they ruled so liberally about an American film copyright, owned by an American company while the later judgement (Toho vs Cosmo Content), about a Japanese film, left us with a contradictory judgement opting for a conservative copyright reinforcement. Incidentally, that may show why Japan has been so closed-lipped, as you say (btw, many important - and still profitable - Ozu and AK films were released in 1952-1954, hence the 2003 copyright law reform)... Here is a more serious study on the case you're talking about : http://www.law.washington.edu/Casrip/Newsletter/Vol14/newsv14i1Mitani.html (but don't forget, this was written before appeal was judged, and before the Toho vs. Cosmo Content case was closed). My take: let's just wait until the two aforementioned cases appeals are judged (then at least one of: Ozu or either pre-53 Kurosawa will be considered PD, depending on the court decision about which law apply). Benjamin.pineau (talk) 18:16, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

hmmm, very interesting, thank you for sharing that article, i was under the impression that the law was for pre-1953, not including that year, but it looks like its pre-1954 films. of course i understand that this was before the recent ruling, i hope they dont cave to the western pressure on this issue. AlexOv Shaolin 16:31, 25 December 2007 (UTC)