Template talk:Aircraft specifications

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Contents
Documentation - Discussion

[edit] Documentation

{{aircraft specifications}} does something, edit this line saying what.

[edit] Usage

{{aircraft specifications

|plane or copter?=<!-- options: plane/copter -->
|jet or prop?=<!-- options: jet/prop/both/neither -->

|ref=

|crew=
|capacity=
|payload main=
|payload alt=
|length main= 
|length alt=
|span main=
|span alt=
|height main=
|height alt=
|area main= 
|area alt= 
|airfoil=
|empty weight main= 
|empty weight alt= 
|loaded weight main= 
|loaded weight alt= 
|useful load main= 
|useful load alt= 
|max takeoff weight main= 
|max takeoff weight alt= 
|more general=

|engine (jet)=
|type of jet=
|number of jets=
|thrust main= 
|thrust alt= 
|thrust original=
|afterburning thrust main=
|afterburning thrust alt= 

|engine (prop)=
|type of prop=
|number of props=
|power main= 
|power alt=
|power original=

|propeller or rotor?=<!-- options: propeller/rotor -->
|propellers=
|number of propellers per engine= 
|propeller diameter main=
|propeller diameter alt= 

|max speed main= 
|max speed alt= 
|max speed more=
|cruise speed main= 
|cruise speed alt= 
|cruise speed more=
|stall speed main= 
|stall speed alt= 
|stall speed more=
|never exceed speed main= 
|never exceed speed alt= 
|range main= 
|range alt=
|range more=
|combat radius main=
|combat radius alt=
|combat radius more=
|ferry range main=
|ferry range alt=
|ferry range more=
|ceiling main= 
|ceiling alt= 
|climb rate main= 
|climb rate alt= 
|loading main=
|loading alt=
|thrust/weight=
|power/mass main=
|power/mass alt=
|more performance=

|armament=<!-- if you want to use the following specific parameters, do not use this line at all-->
|guns= 
|bombs= 
|rockets= 
|missiles= 
|hardpoints= 
|hardpoint capacity=  


|avionics=

}}

{{Aircraft specifications}} - no parameter if applicable

{{Aircraft specifications|param}} - positional parameter

{{Aircraft specifications|name=value}} - named parameter

[edit] Example

Code	Result
`{{Aircraft specifications}}`	General characteristics Length: () Wingspan: () Height: () Performance
`{{Aircraft specifications\|param}}`	General characteristics Length: () Wingspan: () Height: () Performance

[edit] See also

Template:Aircraft specifications (edit talk links history)

[edit] Discussion

Add issues below as you see fit, sign with ~~~~ Note: the title combines aircraft and template; hence, airtemp. It does not mean this template is temporary.

[edit] Instructions

To include this template in an article, copy and paste the outlined block, filling it in as appropriate. Some uncommon fields, such as loaded weight and useful load will be omitted if left blank. The teplate code can be inserted directly into an article by using {{airspec-imp}} for American and English aircraft, and {{airspec-met}} for all other aircraft. If you insist, you can copy-and-paste the text below instead.

Additional parameters:

|more general= Additional general characteristics (weights, dimensions, etc.) not covered in the template. Start each line with <li>'''Name of parameter:'''.
|more performance= Additional performance (G limits, takeoff/landing rolls, etc.) not covered in the template. Start each line with <li>'''Name of parameter:'''.
|power original= For engine power originally measured in non-standard (for WP:Air) units such as metric horsepower (PS) for WW2 German aircraft. Format as <ref>Originally measured as # [[horsepower|PS]]</ref> and place ==Notes== {{subst:footnotes}} at the end of the article. Use this only if you have a source citing the original power output in something other than hp or kW.
|thrust original= For engine thrust originally measured in non-standard (for WP:Air) units such as kgf for Soviet jet aircraft. Format as <ref>Originally measured as # [[kilogram-force|kgf]]</ref> and place ==Notes== {{subst:footnotes}} at the end of the article. Use this only if you have a source citing the original power output in something other than lbf or kN.
|ref= For all references used to fill in the specifications. Use the name of the source, ie Jane's Fighting Aircraft of World War II, and follow it with a cite.php <ref> tag for the full citation.
|max speed more= Used to add additional information after main units (alt units). E.g. when speed is known at a specific altitude, it can be added as "at # ft (# m)" producing "main (alt) at # ft (# m)". |thrust more, |power more, |cruise speed more=, |stall speed more=, and |range more= work in a similar fashion.

==Specifications (<!-- variant -->) ==
{{airtemp|

<!-- please answer the following questions -->
|plane or copter?=<!-- options: plane/copter -->
|jet or prop?=<!-- options: jet/prop/both/neither -->

<!-- Now, fill out the specs.  Please include units where appropriate (main comes first, alt in parentheses). If an item doesn't apply, leave it blank. For instructions on using |more general=, |more performance=, |power original=, and |thrust original= see [[Template talk:Airtemp]]. -->
|crew=
|capacity=
|length main= ft  in
|length alt= m
|span main= ft  in
|span alt= m
|height main= ft  in
|height alt= m
|area main= ft
|area alt= m
|airfoil=
|empty weight main= lb
|empty weight alt= kg
|loaded weight main= lb
|loaded weight alt= kg
|useful load main= lb
|useful load alt= kg
|max takeoff weight main= lb
|max takeoff weight alt= kg
|more general=

|engine (jet)=
|type of jet=
|number of jets=
|thrust main= lbf
|thrust alt= kN
|thrust original=
|thrust more=
|afterburning thrust main= lbf
|afterburning thrust alt= kN
|engine (prop)=
|type of prop=
|number of props=
|power main= hp
|power alt= kW
|power original=
|power more=
   
|max speed main= mph
|max speed alt= km/h
|max speed more=
|cruise speed main= mph
|cruise speed alt= km/h
|cruise speed more=
|never exceed speed main= mph
|never exceed speed alt= km/h
|stall speed main= mph
|stall speed alt= km/h
|stall speed more=
|range main= mi
|range alt= km
|range more=
|ceiling main= ft
|ceiling alt= m
|climb rate main= ft/min
|climb rate alt= m/s
|loading main= lb/ft²
|loading alt= kg/m²
|thrust/weight=
|power/mass main= hp/lb
|power/mass alt= kW/kg
|more performance=

|armament=
}}

[edit] Adding additional sections

Simply end the line with a closing parenthesis and carriage return, starting the next line with an additional bullet (*), to create a new non-template line.

[edit] Old template code

<h3>General characteristics<h3>
* '''Crew:''' {{{crew}}}{{airtemp-capacity-{{{include 'capacity' field?}}}|capacity={{{capacity}}} }}
* '''Length:''' {{{length main}}} ({{{length alt}}}){{airtemp-span-{{{plane or copter?}}}|span main={{{span main}}}|span alt={{{span alt}}} }}
* '''Height:''' {{{height main}}} ({{{height alt}}}){{airtemp-area-{{{plane or copter?}}}|area main={{{area main}}}|area alt={{{area alt}}} }}
* '''Empty weight:''' {{{empty weight main}}} ({{{empty weight alt}}})
{{qif
  |test={{{loaded weight main|}}}
  |then=* '''Loaded weight:''' {{{loaded weight main}}} ({{{loaded weight alt}}})
  |else=
}}
{{qif
  |test={{{useful load main|}}}
  |then=* '''Useful load:''' {{{useful load main|}}} ({{{useful load alt|}}})
  |else=
}}
* '''Maximum gross takeoff weight:''' {{{max takeoff weight main}}} ({{{max takeoff weight alt}}}){{airtemp-engine-{{{jet or prop?}}}|
|engine (jet)={{{engine (jet)}}}
|type of jet={{{type of jet}}}
|number of jets={{{number of jets}}}
|thrust main={{{thrust main}}}
|thrust alt={{{thrust alt}}}
|engine (prop)={{{engine (prop)}}}
|type of prop={{{type of prop}}}
|number of props={{{number of props}}}
|power main={{{power main}}}
|power alt={{{power alt}}}
}}

<h3>Performance<h3>
* '''Maximum speed:''' {{{max speed main}}} ({{{max speed alt}}}) 
{{airtemp-cruise-{{{jet or prop?}}}|cruise speed main={{{cruise speed main}}}|cruise speed alt={{{cruise speed alt}}} }}
{{qif
  |test={{{never exceed speed main|}}}
  |then=* '''Never exceed speed (V<sub>NE</sub>):''' {{{never exceed speed main}}} ({{{never exceed speed alt}}})
  |else=
}}
{{qif
  |test={{{stall speed main|}}}
  |then=* '''[[Stall speed]]:''' {{{stall speed main}}} ({{{stall speed alt}}})
  |else=
}}
* '''Range:''' {{{range main}}} ({{{range alt}}}) {{airtemp-climb/ceiling-{{{jet or prop?}}}|ceiling main={{{ceiling main}}}|ceiling alt={{{ceiling alt}}}|climb rate main={{{climb rate main}}}|climb rate alt={{{climb rate alt}}} }}{{airtemp-loading-{{{plane or copter?}}}|loading main={{{loading main}}}|loading alt={{{loading alt}}} }}{{airtemp-loading-{{{jet or prop?}}}|thrust/weight={{{thrust/weight}}}|power/mass main={{{power/mass main}}}|power/mass alt={{{power/mass alt}}} }}
{{airtemp-mil-{{{include 'armament' field?}}}|armament={{{armament}}} }}

- Emt147 ^Burninate! 05:37, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Armament

I have developed a superior armament section of the following form. It specifies {{{guns}}}, {{{rockets}}}, {{{missiles}}}, {{{bombs}}}, and {{{other armament}}}. The armament section will appear if any of these parametres exist.

{{qif
 |test={{boolor5|{{{guns|}}}|{{{rockets|}}}|{{{missiles|}}}|{{{bombs|}}}|{{{other armament|}}} }}
 |then=<h3>Armament<h3>{{qif
  |test={{{guns|}}}
  |then=<li>'''Guns:''' {{{guns}}}
  |else=}}{{qif
  |test={{{rockets|}}}
  |then=<li>'''Rockets:''' {{{rockets}}}
  |else=}}{{qif
  |test={{{missiles|}}}
  |then=<li>'''Missiles:''' {{{missiles}}}
  |else=}}{{qif
  |test={{{bombs|}}}
  |then=<li>'''Bombs:''' {{{bombs}}}
  |else=}}{{qif
  |test={{{other armament|}}}
  |then={{qif
   |test={{boolor4|{{{guns|}}}|{{{rockets|}}}|{{{misiles|}}}{{{bombs|}}} }}
   |then=<li>'''Other:''' {{{other}}}
   |else={{{other}}} }}
  |else=}}
 |else=}}

Emt talked me out of this one, but I have brought it back in altered form: it can now be overridden by specifying |armament= and typing a fully formatted armament section. Ingoolemo ^talk 17:21, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Compund helicopters and gyrodynes

Just tried using this for the Fairey Jet Gyrodyne and obviously can't do wingspan AND rotor or two propellors off one engine.GraemeLeggett 14:45, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Wingspan is relatively easily solved:

|plane or copter?=plane

...

|span main=10 m
|span alt=33 ft)
* '''Wingspan:''' 100 m (330 ft

I would incorporate this into the template, but there are so few aircraft to which it applies that I don't consider it applicable.

Your second complaint could be dealt with easily, but I propose a more complex solution. Since propeller information is often included in our souce material, it would be worth adding it to our template. I will raise it on WT:Air. Ingoolemo ^talk 03:45, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] MPH???

Is there a particular reason why Wikipedia articles about aircraft are so fond of describing all speeds and ranges in statute miles (per hour), and why the documentation for this template encourages this?

In most aircraft, knots and nautical miles are the preferred units of speed and distance.

The template ought to at least be capable of supporting two "_alt" fields, if all three units are to be supported.

72.49.72.57 17:48, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't know what articles you've been looking at, but at least half should give the statistics in statute miles, nautical miles, and kilometres. This is, in fact, the standard you will find at WP:Air/PC. Ingoolemo ^talk 05:33, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unarmed military aircraft

Using this template with armament=None results in poor formatting, see WC-135 Constant Phoenix#Specifications. Is there a better way to do this? It would be nice to be able to specify unarmed, rather than just not having an armaments section at all. Brianhe 07:39, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I would say Armament: None shows it quite well, but the "none" could do with formatting with a bullet like the other elements. GraemeLeggett 11:39, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] internal fuel

Can someone show me how to add an internal fuel line to the template, thanks.

Wikipedia isn't a Pilot's Operating Handbook; does internal fuel really add that much for the casual reader? If someone wants to look up more detail on the aircraft, our articles should have links to resources with more information. ericg ✈ 16:33, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Where do APU specs go?

I'm trying to add info about a Solar T-62 APU on a Marine helo in CH-46 Sea Knight but noticed that this template makes no provision for a very important piece of powerplant equipment on most modern military and many civilian aircraft, the auxiliary powerplant unit. May I suggest the addition of APU info to the template, to cover MFG, MODEL, TYPE (recip or turbine, even some venerable WWII a/c had them), PURPOSE (jet start, hydraulic, bleed air, etc.) and perhaps POWER OUTPUT? Any other ideas for fields would be welcome. :) Flybd5 04:52, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

I've also seen 'alternative powerplant' on a few articles.

A stopgap solution that will work until the template is changed would be to add info to the parametre |more general, as in |more general=** Auxilliary power plant: 1× T-62 solar plant, xx hp (nn kW). This will be appended directly below the primary powerplant specs. Karl Dickman ^talk 02:20, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

There is so much specs bloat to the template already that I would strongly urge you to NOT add APU (something that will appear only in one or two articles) into the template. Using the "more" tags as explained above produces exactly the same appearance without the server load and page slowdowns from excessive code. - Emt147 ^Burninate! 07:27, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I have to disagree with this. APU's have been in use since before WWII and some of them have become important historical components of aviation history in their own right. For example, what do you think kept all those B-17 pilots in WWII comfy at 35k feet without pressurization or side windows? It was an APU! Flybd5 21:04, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

No one is questioning the importance of the APU, only the fact that this particular spec is largely unknown and creating a parameter in the template for a spec that is rarely used creates unnecessary code bloat. - Emt147 ^Burninate! 22:15, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to suggest an add to the parameters with in the propulsion section as "more power", "more general" can be left for dimensions stuff, "more performance" does just that but "more power" can then cover APUs, JATO units, or other strange powerplant instances. GraemeLeggett 09:22, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Prune {{aircraft specifications}}

Note: this is a transcluded subpage. Click here to edit.

This template has become a bit bloated in some parts, and I think it's time that we review some of its features and decide whether to keep them or not. Please note that I do not suggest not including these in the articles; I only propose that some of them should be removed from the template code. Some of the fields that need to be discussed:

Useful load

Isn't this just the difference between MTOW and empty weight?

Vne, Vs, Vmc

Vno and VC are probably the only V speeds used on a regular basis in our articles.

Hardpoint codings

I developed this to better accommodate modern fighter aircraft, which carry most weapons on external hardpoints. For example,

would yield

Hardpoints: 5, with a capacity of 4,500 kg, equipped to carry combinations of:
- Guns: 12.7 mm machine gun pods
- Rockets: 70 mm unguided rockets
- Missiles: AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles
- Fuel tanks: 4,000 L

However, since I am going to the trouble of pruning the template, I think this is a very worthy candidate for elimination.

Wing loading, thrust/weight, and power/mass

Several editors have argued that these values are always calculated by Wikipedians, and therefore constitute original research.

Loaded weight

This figure is cited in many sources, but is usually arbitrary—no universal standard exists for defining loaded weight.

Karl Dickman ^talk 09:23, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Wouldn't "top speed" be Vne? - Aerobird ^{Target locked - Fox One!} 16:02, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

The template links to V_NO for maximum speed. How correct this is, I don't know. Karl Dickman ^talk 18:20, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

"Top speed" is the maximum speed the aircraft can attain in level flight, typically near or around VNO (normal operations). VNE is the never-exceed speed, typically reached only when the aircraft is in a dive or at high altitudes and mach numbers. ericg ✈ 19:35, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure how useful "loaded weight" is for the purposes of Wikipedia; frankly, I think that empty weight and max takeoff gross weight are all that is needed — and "useful load" can be readily determined from those. If I were to add something weight-related, I'd probably substitute "wing loading". As for armament, I think that should be a standard separate section for combat aircraft, whether a template or not. It's not so much performance-related as capability-related. If you are going to make it a template, I would divide the "Missiles" parameter into separate AAM and ASM lines, and add another parameter for "Other pods" (nav, recce, EW, etc.). Askari Mark (Talk) 21:57, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Although in nearly every article wing loading is calculated as the loaded weight divided by the wing area. Several editors have argued against including wing loading and thrust/weight specs, on the grounds that they are calculated by us and thus uncitable original research. Karl Dickman ^talk 22:11, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Simple math is "original research"? If everybody would calculate the same result, then it's hardly original. I could agree if there were a choice of formulae to employ. Max wing loading would tend to get around the "loaded weight" issue. Don't get me wrong, I'm not dying to add more entries to the specs. I'm just thinking of what the average person familiar with published aircraft encyclopedias would expect to find. Askari Mark (Talk) 02:06, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

One thing that might be useful to actually add into the specs would be hover ceiling (IGE, OGE, or both) for helicopters. A lot of the service ceiling entries on helicopter pages are actually hover ceilings and I have to remove them. Hover ceiling is generally a more useful spec for helicopters than the service ceiling and is more often stated by the manufacturer than an absolute service ceiling which is more a function of weight and engine performance. As for the loaded weight, I was always taught that it was the aircraft with oil, fuel and pilot, minus cargo. So, it is a true indication of what the cargo capacity is versus thinking that the useful load is its actual cargo carrying capacity. --Born2flie 16:21, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry about screwing up the format. I just wanted to point out that in most of the articles the power to weight nomenclature is sloppy. From the Piaggio p180 page: Power/mass: 4.13 kg/kW (6.79 lb/hp) Power/mass implies power to weight, but the number is reversed as weight/power. Many of the articles do this, although power to weight is the idiomatic way of saying it, it is incorrect. It will also lead to confusion for the few aircraft that actually exceed 1:1 Also the term "mass" doesn't make sense as the aircraft is in a gravitational field, and lb is not mass, it is weight.

[edit] Engines and armament

Because these sections are relatively complex, perhaps they could use their own subtemplate to make the main template easier to read. Or perhaps the info should be entered manually rather than automatically? Karl Dickman ^talk 01:42, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Helicopters

Hi, I'm traducing this template to the spanish Wikipedia, but I don't understand what exactly is Disc area? Someone can you help me? Please answer in Elkan76 Many thanks

Elkan76 04:20, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Disk area is the entire rotor surface area as if it was a solid disk

(π r 2)

--Born2flie 05:24, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Maaany thanks, sooner you'll see this template. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.27.164.211 (talk) 22:21, 23 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Usage example out of date?

Is the usage up to date, there appear to be more parameters that are discussed than are present in the parameter list. GraemeLeggett 11:20, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Template not applicable to gliders

The above template applies only to powered aircraft. Most of the data listed, except a/c dimensions, will not be available for gliders and thus will be void. For gliders essential data is not listed at all. I recently introduced a template specifically for gliders in the German Wikipedia (Template, Preview), which I copied and adapted to the English Wiki. If interested, you can find it here. Comments? -- Wo st 01 (2007-06-13 13:13 UTC )

Integrate it into aircraft specs or copy the style of the aircraft specs template, the two will then appear the same no matter the underlying code operations. GraemeLeggett 09:18, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Include template in the code?

Could we include the {{convert|original_value|original_unit|conversion_unit|round_to}} template into the code? It would save a lot of work for the creator of the new aircraft articles when you don't have to calculate from m to feet kg to lbs etc (and vice versa). --MoRsE 22:04, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

You'd have to specify which system of units are the main ones. US customary units are the main ones on most US products. How difficult would these conversion templates to work either way? -Fnlayson 22:17, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
- Testing:
  - {{convert|100|ft|m|1}} generates: 100 feet (30.5 m)
  - {{convert|100|m|ft|1}} generates: 100 metres (328.1 ft) ...seems to work quite good!

I realize that there still is no weight conversion code in the template, so I asked them to include it, along with the power units conversion code. --MoRsE 22:47, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I meant integrating that template in with the rest of the Specs template. Hopefully it is not as bad as it seems to me now. -Fnlayson 03:23, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not ready for deployment

This template is not ready for deployment. See, for example, the mess it has made of the specifications in the Robinson R22 article. Until its deficiencies are corrected, usage of the template should be stopped immediately. —Quicksilver^{T @} 16:07, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

This template has been in use for some time. There's nothing wrong with it. Someone recently added a bullet to the More general field is all. I fixed the formatting in the R22 article. Chill out ... -Fnlayson 17:15, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

It's still a mess. Look at the text in the top line:

Data from Robinson R22 Pilot's Operating Handbook Data for current versions of the R22 vary slightly.

What's with the weird mix of italics and normal text?

Also, look under Performance. What's with the missing right parenthesis after "(386 km" and missing left parenthesis in the following line, after Endurance? My assessment still stands. The template needs further work. —Quicksilver^{T @} 03:18, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

That parenthesis was messed up due to the Endurance add on thing right below it. I don't care for the italics thing either, but I think it is a minor nit. -Fnlayson 03:29, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Empty performance heading

How do I hide the performance heading when there is nothing under it, e.g. in Antonov A-40? Thanks. —Michael Z. 2008-04-29 18:43 Z

You can't. However, the newer {{aerospecs}} supports this; I'll swap it over. --Rlandmann (talk) 20:28, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. —Michael Z. 2008-04-29 20:29 Z

[edit] Display issue - engine thrust params?

When using the "=both" for type of engine, I don't see afterburning thrust as well as dry, as in here Operational Requirement F.155#SR.187, is this me or the template?GraemeLeggett (talk) 12:55, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Not sure on that one. Why is the rocket info put in the engine(prop) fields? That may be why. Try using the more general field for the rocket info to see if that works any better. -Fnlayson (talk) 13:13, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

the rocket bit is a cheating with the template to get two different engine types listed. I' sure putting it into more general would work but. i) these rockets are just JATO units and deserve equal billingbalongside the turbojets. ii) I wondered what was stopping it from happening - it could have been an aircraft with a RR Merlin and a the augmented W2 ... GraemeLeggett (talk) 18:04, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

The code only shows the dry thrust info if the type=jet. But then the prop info does not show. That's all I got.. -Fnlayson (talk) 18:49, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Greame, you might try Template:Aerospecs (not Template:Aero-specs). It is more flexible, having two engine sections, each able to select jet, prop, or rocket. - BillCJ (talk) 19:18, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll stick with figuring the answer to this one, from a bit of experimentation I can see its because its not been completed in the code, and is a question of ifs and elses and whathaveyou. Perhaps a more adept coder will come by....GraemeLeggett (talk) 20:23, 28 May 2008 (UTC)