Talk:Aircraft losses of the Vietnam War

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Hello What about te losses for the Viets ? How many aircrafts did they loos ? Are there officiaal sources for the Nort Viet loses ?

Contents 1 Numbers don't match other reports 2 Army Statistics 3 These Figures Don't Jive, I agree 4 E2C hawkeye 5 A-5 Vigilante 6 Aircrew losses needed 7 A-7 Corsair II 8 Australian aircraft 9 Pasted text

[edit] Numbers don't match other reports

These figures are significantly higher than those here: Vietnam Air Losses Does anyone know the reason for the discrepancy? The figures listed at the location I gave are for combat losses over North Vietnam. I can't imagine the difference would be made up by accidents, etc. but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the difference is aircraft which were damaged and never returned to service, but not actually shot down? Nvinen 12:42, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, this [1] also disagrees, although matches much more closely the numbers presented in this article. Nvinen 12:46, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The figures I just included in the Air Force fixed-wing category were originally broken down by combat losses in "North Vietnam", "Other SEA" (Laos, South Vietnam, Thailand, and Cambodia), and "Operational." The combat losses were totalled together in the same table. There was one additional category for aircraft, "Other" which listed 255 lost to all causes, 148 in combat, and may include many of the unattributed figures I enclosed in parentheses. Buckboard 16:01, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Army Statistics

Just curious if there was a reason army figures are not in this article. The CNA seems to have not included them in their study, so maybe this is the reason, but they had a ton of helicopters that were lossed not included here if the Vietnam Heliopter Pilots Association figures are to be believed. Very frustrating trying to get reliable sources. Have tried to contact the National Archives (they should have the data somewhere), but am not getting very far in their bureacracy. There are too many discrepancies. Looks like people have tried to piece the figures together, and are coming up with wildly different answers. --Hhoblit (talk) 05:28, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] These Figures Don't Jive, I agree

Yeah, I think these figures aren't strictly combat losses. Even if they include maintenance losses, attrition and whatever else they still seem pretty high.

For the Air Force figures, they include both accidental and combat. They also include losses attributed to Southeast Asia but occurring elsewhere, including 6 B-52s (2 in Kadena, Okinawa, 2 at Anderson AFB, Guam, and 2 in mid-air collision over the South China Sea).Buckboard 16:04, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

The two SR-71 losses were confirmed accidents (one flame-out near Korat, Thailand, one rollout accident at kadena AB). The M21 (A-12/SR71 "mother ship" for drone) was deleted--the only one lost was on a test flight and it caused the program to be cancelled. Buckboard 09:57, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] E2C hawkeye

There is 2 E2C losses listed, however until the late 80´s the navy boasted that the Hawkeye was the only aircraft type they operate that never had a loss, either by fire or accident.

The E-2 losses are listed. Neither was an E-2C. Perhaps Navy hype was a bit misleading.--Buckboard 01:37, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A-5 Vigilante

The A-5 never flew a combat mission as an A-5. All were converted to RA-5s before the Vietnam war. Therefore I deleted the "A-5 Vigilante" entry and will continue to do so if it recurs.--Buckboard 01:41, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Aircrew losses needed

It's surprisingly hard to find info on USAF/USN/USAF aircrew losses (KIA, MIA) for the entire period 1964-73. Any info would add to the utility of this entry.

B Tillman, Aug 07

I agree whole-heartedly. I've been trying since 1975 to collect and reconcile aircrew losses and identities for all US military in SEA--it's both formidable and frustrating. btw, it you are the B Tillman I think you are, you have my highest respect!--Buckboard 10:06, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

On 19 May 1967, LCDR James Griffin, pilot, and LT Jack Walters, Recon Attack Navigator (RAN), launched for an over-the-beach mission in the Haiphong/Hanoi area. While overhead Hanoi the aircraft was hit by enemy fire and both crewmen ejected. A radio broadcast from Hanoi announced that both men had been captured. As a result, the Navy placed Griffin and Walters in POW status.

As time passed, both Griffin and Walters were promoted, Griffin to Commander and Walters to Lieutenant Commander.

In January 1973, shortly before the POWs were released (February 1973), Hanoi announced that Griffin and Walters had died of injuries sustained during the shootdown/ejection, Walters on 20 May 1967 and Griffin on 21 May 1967. On 16 January 1974 the Secretary of the Navy verified their deaths. Hanoi returned their remains on 13 March 1974, and positive identification of both men was announced on 17 April 1974. The Democratic Republic of Vietnam offered no explanation for the five and a half year delay in announcing the deaths of the two men.

From the POW Network pages for CDR Griffin and LCDR Walters.

[edit] A-7 Corsair II

I've corrected information about its first loss; it was Dec 67, not Mar 68. 195.248.189.182 (talk) 12:02, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Australian aircraft

What about two lost Canberras in 1970-1971? I can provide some details if necessary. 195.248.189.182 (talk) 12:14, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pasted text

I am pasting a paragraph of text from the article here, it looks like the user entered it in to the article by mistake, it is not dated:

This article appears to ignore the very large number of US Army aircraft (mainly helicopters) lost in the Vietnam War. A number of aircraft operated by CIA controlled organisations including 'Air America' were also lost. In the late 1970's total US aircraft losses (all types) were reported to have exceeded 5000, more than were lost in WW2. More recent it has been asserted^[1] that 5086 helicopters were lost in the war. Most of these will have been operated by the US Army.]--Gliderman

Thanks Nimbus227 (talk) 12:11, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

It's not so much ignored as a daunting task for which some editors, including myself, do not have data sources. if you do, please contribute by adding to the article. Thanx.--User talk:Buckboard1 09:52, 9 March 2008 (UTC)