Talk:AirTran Airways

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[edit] Holding company

AirTran is not the former ValuJet. AirTran absorbed the company. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.199.190.104 (talk • contribs).

Indeed, the page immediately drops into a discussion of Valujet, and completely ignores the pre-merger history of AirTran. I think we should probably make a separate page for Valujet (which mentions the merger, of course) and move all the Valujet specific history there, and use this page for the pre- and post-merger AirTran. That's primarily how the other airline pages seem to be set up. Kaszeta 13:54, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Sorry I missed your comments when I added Correct page below. But I agree that you are correct and if you look, you will find that this change has happened. Actually AirTran Holdings bought ValuJet and combined it with its Airways Corporation to form AirTran Airways. As noted below, I'm going to move this page to the correct article, Air Tran Airways and move the AirTran Holdings material into a company article.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Vegaswikian (talk • contribs).

[edit] NPOV issue with links?

Does the http://www.ityt.com/airtran/ link belong here? It's a very one-sided POV article, and I'm not sure that, as an encyclopedia, we should be linking to it, at least without some further explanatory text.

Perhaps a better approach is a subject on AirTran's safety, with perhaps that subject having a link? Or better yet, incorporate some of the links from the abovementioned page in a NPOV manner?

Thoughts?

Kaszeta 13:48, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Why does AirTran's site list minor incidents like a plan being hit by a baggage tug, and Delta has only three major crashes on the last 30 years? Is the WikiProject Airlines managed by laid-off Delta Pilots?

Previous unsigned comment by 68.223.6.219 11:51, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Indecipherable sentence

"In 1995, the Department of Defense rejected ValuJet's bid to fly military personnel, says the carriers measures that provided short term fixes to problems instead of making long term changes was unacceptable."

Does anyone have any idea what this sentence is supposed to mean? It'd be great if someone could make it comprehensible. Deco 23:03, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Maybe "In 1995, The Department of Defense rejected ValuJet's bid to fly military personnel, citing unaccpetable flaws in the carrier's actions after numerous air accidents. The DoD said that they did not see the changes as long-term, siginificant changes but rather as short-term, symptomatic repairs." I think this is about what they were trying to say. --Whosyourjudas (talk) 19:52, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

A personal interpretation of a quote ("I think this is about what they were trying to say") is an opinion and therefore cannot reliably reflect the actual intent. ElevenX, 13:25, 1 Jun 2005

That may be, but anyone can make that change to improve the readability and if the information is wrong, then another editor can adjust the parts in error. That's how I was told this works. Vegaswikian 18:02, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Correct page

Isn't this the name of the holding company and not the air line? The airline information should be moved to AirTran Airways which redirects here. Maybe just moving this page and building a corporate one from scratch by doing some cut and paste would be the easiest. Vegaswikian 21:50, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Actually, after rereading this article, a lot of it needs to be moved to a Value Jet article. That's where most of the history actually belongs. It is not AirTran Airways history. Vegaswikian 21:53, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] AirTran Bashing, I smell an ex-Delta Pilot.

Why does AirTran's site list minor incidents like a plane being hit by a baggage tug, and Delta has only three major crashes on the last 35 years? Is the WikiProject Airlines managed by laid-off Delta Pilots? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.223.6.219 (talk • contribs)

  • No one manages any project, just the community. There is nothing preventing you from contributing to WikiProject Airlines and proposing criteria for listing incidents. It is suggested that if you want to be a regular contributor that you get your own id to log in with. Vegaswikian 20:00, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Delta pilot bashing? I smell an AirTran pilot! Perhaps you could best contribute by summarizing and totaling a series of events and contributing fair representation to other articles. Concur that ramp rash should likely not be included unless it resulted in a flight-related incident. Dbchip 00:25, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My edit vanished!

Without a trace, it's gone. I can't even find it in history. I spent a good hour adding and tweaking it a few months back and now it's as if it never existed... angrykeyboarder 10:53, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

It's not gone, it's still in the current version, though there is now another sentence or two before it. As a reminder, this was your change. -- Bovineone 15:44, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge Pages (ValuJet/AirTran)

I am suggesting that ValuJet Airlines be merged into AirTran Airways because they are the same company. The newer name of the two names should be kept, and this is AirTran Airways. I have placed the merge template on both pages.

The Merge would entail moving all relevant info from ValuJet Airlines into AirTran Airways and include a redirect on the ValuJet Page.

There is no need for multipule pages for the same content. DemosDemon 20:21, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


No Merge: I think the airline was a seperate entity, with it's own managment style, it was in a way a different airline, and I think everyone in the enthusiast community considers them separate, this would mean CP Air would be merged with the Canadian Airlines page. As well, if you look above on the enity part, it also states this. WestJet 18:36, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

No Merge: This issue was previously discussed and the community decided to split the two airlines into separate pages. The history section of the AirTran page clearly explains how the former ValuJet was merged into AirTran Airways, and now operates under the AirTran certificate of operations. If a reader is interested in learning more about ValuJet Airlines, the links to that page are clearly evident. Mcblowfish

  • Clearly they are/were two different companies and airlines. It's clearer for the reader to find out about the airline by reading an article about it and not about multiple airines. If there is some shared history, if should be briefly mentioned in one article and covered in detail in only one. There is no need to merge these articles. Vegaswikian 22:36, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Focus cities

I found one source that lists Philadelphia International Airport, Baltimore-Washington International Airport, and Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport as focus cities. I could not find a list on the airline site. Do we have a source for any of the airports listed? If not, they should be removed from the infobox. Vegaswikian 19:27, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

  • I don't think there's an official list of AirTran focus cities anywhere, but I think they are beneficial to list if they're somewhat substantial. There's no use getting rid of them if there's no official list. I think Balt-Wash deserves to be on there, but Philadelphia and Dallas Fort-Worth do not have a lot of non-hub flights. I recently added Westchester County Airport to the list because AirTran increased their presence at the airport to 5 non-hub destinations, while Philadelphia has 4 and Dallas only has 3. Do you think there should be some sort of rule, such as it needs to have at least 5 non-hub destinations (meaning excluding Atlanta)? -Jondude11 02:46, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
    • There is no rule that I know of. What we are left with is WP:V. So if there is no source, the other cities should be removed. Vegaswikian 05:08, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
      • From here, Orlando, Boston, Philadelphia, Chicago Midway, Tampa, and Dallas Fort/Worth (12) are listed as focus cities. That was the only source I was able to find after spending a while looking for this info. Almost every other source is a mirror of wikipedia. That shows we should strive to be accurate. So I'm going to update the article to reflect the above information. If someone has a better source please disclose it. Also note that this list stopped at 12 departures. Maybe for this airline 12-15 departures could be a cutoff for listing a city as a focus city. I'm not happy with the quality of the source I found. Personally I'd drop focus cities from the infobox since apparently AirTran does not list focus cities. If someone feels that it needs to be updated, then please provide a source for the infomation. I did not find the source for my comment above that only listed 3 cities in this search. Vegaswikian 19:06, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merger (AirTran Holdings/AirTran Airways)

I am suggesting this merger as the former article contains very little unique data, and it only has one principle redirect. The former article would become a redirect. —Joseph/N328KF (Talk) 04:26, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Support. The holding company is not known for any other reason it seems. -- Bovineone 15:25, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Support, per nomination --Mhking 17:20, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose. The parent company is traded on the NYSE and under curent criteria should have an article. What is wrong with having an article about an NYSE listed company? As an encylopedia, if someone is looking for information about the NYSE company, the current setup allows them to get that directly. If they want the airline, they get that directly. If combined, they would have to try and sort out the information they need from a combined article. If there is currently duplication, then it should be removed from one article. Vegaswikian 19:56, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose, agree with Vegaswikian about merger of AirTran Holdings to AirTran Airways. Sox23 03:02, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Support, with qualifications. As the page now stands, there's not enough differing content to justify a separate page. However, given the possible bid for Midwest Airlines, it might be best to wait, and see if the two airlines are merged, or remain separate. If they remain separte entities within the holding company, then it would make sense not to merge the articles. In the meantime, those opposing the merge might do well to increse the content on the holding company's page, such as adding a company infobox, and any info on the company not related directly to the airline. - BillCJ 20:45, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Decision

After 12 days, theres is no clear consensus, and only one vote since Dec. 14. Therefore, I am removing the tags. - BillCJ 02:09, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Just a vote for the future in case this comes up again-- I would support a merger.--Gloriamarie 02:12, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] More info about Midwest merger proposal

There is very little information here concerning the proposed AirTran/Midwest merger. On the Midwest Airlines page, there is a nice amount of information provided. It would be great to have more info added here.Gittinsj 04:01, 30 March 2007 (UTC)gittinsj

added AirTran/Midwest merger section and includes same info found in Midwest Airlines article. Sox23 14:16, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] LAS focus city

Could we call McCarran airport a focus city? Airtran has a lot of future destinations from there. I posted this on the McCarran Airport talk page, too.


[edit] LAS focus city reply

It's not really focus city seeing that it doesnt have any connections. Much like LAX or DEN, its just one of Airtran Airways' top vacation destinations.

[edit] MCO is not a hub

The definition of airline hub states, "An airline hub is an airport that an airline uses as a transfer point to get passengers to their intended destination. It is part of a hub and spoke model, where travelers moving between airports not served by direct flights change planes en route to their destinations." The problem with MCO being a hub for Airtran Airways is that it does not have connections which serve other cities. There are 114 daily departures/arrivals but they are all direct flights into MCO or out of MCO, none of which connect to another city. In fact, of these 114 departures/arrivals, almost 50 of them are a shuttle to and from Atlanta. Werecowmoo 16:42, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

On the same site, it says Secondary Hub is a "non-technical" term for Large Focus City...that is what MCO is. The point you're making is that BWI should be considered a Hub then since it transfers passengers, whereas Orlando International is a huge focus city for AirTran. Sox23 16:54, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
Near the end of discussion, says it is fair to call MCO a "secondary hub": http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/3501108/?searchid=3501108&s=AirTran#ID3501108

Sox23 23:35, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] BWI is a hub

The definition of airline hub states, "An airline hub is an airport that an airline uses as a transfer point to get passengers to their intended destination. It is part of a hub and spoke model, where travelers moving between airports not served by direct flights change planes en route to their destinations." BWI does fit this definition very well in that it frequently connects passengers between RSW, ATL, FLL, TPA, MCO, BOS, MKE, DAY, ROC, SEA, and PWM with other flights to/from these cities. Werecowmoo 16:42, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Holdings/Airways Page Merger- Vote #2

AirTran Holdings only business is AirTran Airways and is simply the parent company of the airline, much like a bank holding company is the parent of the operating bank (i.e. JPMorganChase & Co. owns JPMorganChase Bank, NA). Yet, in those cases, two articles portraying the two as separate entities does not exist. The same should be true in this case. --Rbyrd8100 18:26, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Support. The holding company is not known for any other reason it seems. -- Bovineone 16:45, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
  • We still need to address the fact that the holding company itself is listed on the stock exchange. Since many if not most of the US airlines are setup this way it is not unreasonable to retain articles like this as a part of a series of like articles. Then this news release shows the proposed acquisition is by the holding company and not the airline. Their last 10Q states that they have other subsidiaries besides the airline. They are trying to acquire another airline and how that will be integrated is not completely clear, but I suspect it will be combined with the existing airline. Even with that, it will probably be operating two airlines for a year or so since it may take that long to get a combined operating certificate or merge the fleets is some other way. The holdings company is Nevada corporation, the airline is a Delaware corporation with both having their headquarters in Florida. Vegaswikian 19:54, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
  • One example of AirTran Holdings having more than one subsidiary is the Galena Corp. This is the branch of the company who is "technically" attempting the merger.Werecowmoo 02:34, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Vegaswikian 23:11, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
  • OpposeWerecowmoo 20:30, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
  • OpposeSox23 21:08, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Support. This page should be named "airtran airways", but the company box on the right should say AirTran Holdings. An example of this is the XM radio wikipedia page, which also has the "holding" company issue. Brandith8 04:16, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
  • It should be noted that Galena Corp's primary function is the servicing/support of the Airline and has no public presence, operation, marketing, or is known by anyone outside the company. Rbyrd8100 04:21, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
    • So what better place to document it then in an article on the parent? As an encyclopedia presenting everything about a company makes sense. If other parts become notable, then they get an article. In the meantime, they start with a mention in the parent and grow as needed. Vegaswikian 05:47, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Galena was incorporated March 24, 1999. Werecowmoo 05:14, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
  • You are right, Galena content should be incorporated, no one is suggesting deletion of contents, just merging for simplicity and less confusion. Rbyrd8100 17:48, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Atlanta Airport

We are travelling on Air Tran Flt # 653 and connecting with Ft. 63. This seems like a tight connection to me and would like to know how far it is between arrival and departure gates? My Mom will be using a wheelchair.

I would appreciate any information you can provide me.

depends on which gate you arrive at and which gate you depart out of- all of AirTran is in Concourse C at Hartsfield so that saves you the time of transfering concourses...it is unpredictable basically Sox23 00:35, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Secondary Hubs

Airtran has no secondary hubs and if you cant source your information then dont put it on. Until you can provide sources then im gonna have to undo it. Orlando and Baltimore are focus cities. 76.16.109.18 20:51, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

See "MCO is not a hub" section.

[edit] History section

Wikipedia is not Wikinews, and we should not, and need not, list each and every thing that happens to the company over the course of running their business. This history section needs to be trimmed significantly. --ZimZalaBim talk 22:04, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Attempted to move some thing around to make it more of a readable article instead of just a laundry list. Most information is still there (only deleted a small amount of material) but moved into subsections.Werecowmoo (talk) 03:37, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NEW ROUTES

Do these need to be mentioned anywhere: lga-dab, lga-mco, mke-lax, mke-lga, mke-sea, bwi-btv, bwi-lax? Werecowmoo (talk) 13:48, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I've taken care of it. Sox23 22:44, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, figured I'd let someone else do it since I was stuck there all day! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Werecowmoo (talk • contribs) 04:36, 16 February 2008 (UTC)