Talk:Ahmad ibn Fadlan

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[edit] Character codes

Nothing wrong with the character codes just deleted; they display fine on my computer. Mustafaa 04:14, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Allahu Akbar, but he doesn't bother to control mine and my friend's and my friend's girlfriend's computers. :-) Thanks for Arabic. Mikkalai 05:11, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Ibn al-Abbas ibn Rashid ibn Hamad

I wouldn't go so far as to call it vandalism. It just seems somebody added the "full" name of Banderas' character (13th warrior), which happens not to coincide with the full name of the historical ibn Fadlan (at least I wasn't able to verify it) dab 07:17, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

• Check other contribs of this anon. Mikkalai 14:31, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

San'a is a populous city with fine dwellings, some above others, but most of them are decorated with plaster, burned bricks, balloons, unicorns, festive cucumbers, chickens, cocaine, lotions, allah, jesus, thorns, bramblebush, sausage, computers, turtles, the number '3,' and dressed stones. — at least it's a funny vandal ;o) dab 14:45, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Bibliografical names

• Dear friends, please let me know how arab names with ibn and / or abu are used in xx.wikipedia. While searching some books about Ahmad ibn Fadlan at the Bavarian state library in Munich, Germany (available online at [1]) I could see spellings of the name for books registered under Fadlan as Ibn Foszlan (also used in Genitiv for German, Polish ... titels) ...
• Questions:
  • Should the (most common) bibliographical name(s) / bibliographic item(s) (see Catalog) be mentioned here? Should alternative usage be listed too?
  • Is a central point about bibliographic name / bibliographic item / bibliographical usage available already at meta:Main Page or where schould it be placed. It relates also to names from other cultural societies / time periods (Greek names, Medieval names, Icelandic fathernames ...) too.
  • Which forms for Ahmad ibn Fadlan should be redirected to the main article. See if [2] is compleate.
  • What other existing ibn / abu names should be verified too. Regards Gangleri 21:27, 2004 Oct 9 (UTC)

P.S. en: Village pump (miscellaneous)#indications about bibliographic item(s) (see Catalog) Gangleri 00:25, 2004 Oct 10 (UTC)

Concerning ibn vs. bin: I'm afraid there's no fixed convention. We wouldn't say "bin Fadlan" or "ibn Laden". One or the other somehow becomes current. I suppose the difference of ibn vs. bin the presence of full desinences/i'rab? (Ahmadu-bin-Fadlani vs. Ahmad ibn Fadlan)? (which are the variants of abu?) concerning "Foszlan", that's Fraehn's spelling of 1823, nobody would transliterate it like that now. Arab "Dal" is usually represented as d-underdot, and when we simply drop the diacritics, we get "Fadlan". Concerning redirects, I guess it's simply a pragmatic questions of which names are current... If you get more than a couple of google hits, it may be worthwhile to create a redirect. dab 20:55, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Fadlan ISN'T fictious?

And here I am thinking that M. Crichton had pubilcally admitted that he had made up all of his references because it was a work of fiction. Maybe he lied about that and all those references do exist. Really. There is some sarcasm here, but it is in the foreward of the edition of eaters of the dead that I have. Of course, I could be mistaken about the names, but I will check and get back to this. <unsigned>

Crichton's is mostly fictious. This article is about the real one. mikka (t) 22:56, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ibn Fadhlan was a kurd

The articles misinterpretation of Fadhlans ethnicity as an arab is very common, thus almost anyone from the "muslim world" is labeled as an arab mutch thanks to their arabic names wich they are known by. In this case, ibn Fadhlan, he even bears the kurdish tribal name of Fadhlan also known as Fazlan/Fazlun tribe of the Shadad (modern Shadlu) confederacy. The Fadhlans came from Southern Kurdistan but today they are found in northern Kurdistan and in the kurdish populated Khurasan.

Pleace cite a source for ibn Fadlan being a Kurd. If you are basing your claim on the similarity of his family name with the name of a Kurdish tribe, without any hard sources, that is original research --Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 22:02, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Source: "The Kurds: A Concise Handbook" by Prof. Mehrdad R. Izady

[edit] Name

According to: the Modern Encyclopedia of Russian and Soviet History Vol 14 The Russian Movement in World History by Marshall T. Poe and Medieval Russia: A Source Book, 900-1700 by Basil Dmytryshyn

His name was simply Ahmed Ibn-Fadlan (Fadlana in a russian transliteration). The name at the top of this article is from the movie the 13th Warrior. I will leave it because it's in such nice arabic, but I will make note of the error near the top of the page.

In the Risala, he gives his own name as Ahmad ibn al-'Abbās ibn Rashīd ibn Hammad ibn Fadlan. Please do more thorough investigation next time. Also, the main article space is an inappropriate place for "notes" of error. Either correct the mistake or raise the issue in the talk page.--Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 21:26, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

I have found a source now that cites his name as such. Why doesn't my schools russian encyclopedia include his full name? Any ideas? I will be more careful of ettiquite in the future.

Ahmed ibn Fadlan is the name by which he is traditionally known. Many Arab writers from the Middle Ages are known to scholars either by an -eke name (al-Tabari, al-Khwarazmi) or by a family name (ibn Faldan, ibn Rustah, ibn Khordadbeh) that may or may not be their personal patronymic. I can't tell you why your encyclopedia editors chose to refer to him as Ahmad ibn Fadlan rather than by his full name. That was an editorial decision on their part. Nevertheless the full name as given in this article is correct. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 22:01, 31 January 2006 (UTC)