Talk:Agnes de Mille

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Quote: "The truest expression of a people is in its dances and its music...Bodies never lie." Agnes De Mille

Contents

[edit] Requested move

Agnes DeMille → Agnes de Mille — This article was moved from Agnes de Mille on 11 August (UTC) with the following explanation: "All of the family went by "DeMille," not "de Mille."" However, Carol Easton's biography is entitled No Intermission: The Life of Agnes de Mille. —Timeineurope 14:10, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
  • Oppose - I don't think that this is a good enough reason. She should go by how most commonly her name is rendered (as it also should be consistent with Cecil's name). Hell's Angels: The Strange and Terrible Saga of the Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs uses the apostrophe in "Hells Angels" although the biker gang omits it. Reginmund 00:05, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Very strong support - Definitely move (back) to de Mille. DeMille is not how she spelled her name, and other people's names are no precedent to go by as there are so many personal variations on name spellings. Nobody is going to decide to move Britney Spears to Brittany Spears because "Brittany is the traditional spelling" - that is just absurd. Agnes de Mille spelled her name in that manner, there is plenty of evidence for it, and the article should absolutely reflect that. -- Editor at Large • talk 11:17, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Any additional comments:
  • There is absolutely no reason whatsoever why it should be consistent with Cecil's name. Agnes de Mille and Cecil B. DeMille are different people and may be spelt differently.
  • [1] also spells it Agnes de Mille.
  • A Google search shows that Agnes DeMille is not "how most commonly her name is rendered".
  • She is Agnes de Mille on the dust jacket of her memoir: [2].
  • The link above also shows her having signed her memoir as Agnes George de Mille.

Timeineurope 09:18, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Does the dance company named after her have a space? We have a policy of use the name things are most commonly called by - we are not interested in making her consistant with her uncle if she wasn't. (People can anglicise their surnames in different ways) Secretlondon 20:27, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

She's billed as "de Mille" in the programs and playbills for Bloomer Girl, Paint Your Wagon, Brigadoon, and the Agnes de Mille Dance Theatre, in addition to the "Agnes de Mille Dances" website referenced above. Incidentally, the latter is operated by de Mille's son. I've never seen her called DeMille in any professional context. Lector 00:57, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name Debate

Regradless of what her name really was, the page should be titled according to the most commonly used form of her name.

She was born Agnes deMille, but she is often always reffered to as Agnes de Mille, so teh article should be listed as such.

For example, the page I created on the composer Minkus is listed under Léon Minkus, even though he was born and called Ludwig Minkus all of his life. Ludwig is his correct first name, not Léon, but since he is almost always reffered to as Léon in modern times, then I put the page under that name.

--Mrlopez2681 23:44, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

The current entry Agnes De Mille is overwhelmingly prefered if one searches Google with Agnes De Mille -DeMille and with Agnes DeMille -De -Mille. Robert Greer 23:19, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Agnes De Mille vs. Agnes de Mille is admittedly a lesser issue and one which Google will not resolve.
Her papers are on file at Smith College in the Sophia Smith Collection with the latter, lowercase, de.
American Ballet Theatre and New York City Ballet's websites do likewise (although not quite perfectly consistently).
The New York Times and IMDB are consistently lowercase de, so the current Agnes de Mille may be taken for definitive with considerable confidence. Robert Greer (talk) 00:21, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DEFAULTSORT

Should she be {{DEFAULTSORT:De Mille, Agnes}} or {{DEFAULTSORT:Mille, Agnes de}}?

NB She should not be {{DEFAULTSORT:de Mille, Agnes}} in any case! — Robert Greer (talk) 12:13, 23 April 2008 (UTC)