Talk:Aging

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Aging is part of the WikiProject Biology, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to biology on Wikipedia.

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The Aging article is part of WikiProject World's Oldest People, an attempt to expand, update, and improve all articles relating to the World's Oldest People.

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[edit] Spelling

I find it bad practice to have a page named with impropper spelling. Perhaps this could be moved to Aging (life cycle) instead? A simple redirect can then be used on this title so the links on other pages won't be broken. (Lady Serena 04:17, 3 February 2006 (UTC))

Ageing is a perfectly valid spelling in Commonwealth English. - SimonP 17:57, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

it's an american website. anyway, more people use the american spelling than the commonwealth spelling. i'm moving it.Joeyramoney 20:02, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Wow, you people really love to complain, don't you?! The current setup is fine, with redirects and that, so it doesn't matter how you spell it. Both spellings seem perfectly valid to me. It's not really a question of whether "more people" use one spelling, making that the right one, is it?!Crunchysaviour 22:42, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

"Impropper" spelling, Ms Serena? SpNeo 16:09, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I think the American was joking. Both spellings are of course correct, but, unlike other differences between Commonwealth and American English, this is one where the American spelling is much more widely used. Having the article about humor being called "humour" (even though it was originally spelled "humor...") is fine. But this article should be "Aging." Foreigners will get confused by all the articles and books with the "aging" spelling. WikiFair1 08:00, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia policy is quite clear, all varieties of English are equally acceptable. Ageing is no less common than any other Commonwealth English spelling. A Google search shows that the aging/ageing ratio is similar to the the humor/humour ration, for instance. - SimonP 15:30, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Huh? The "aging" / "ageing" spelling ratio is, precisely, 217,000,000 to 35,100,000, i.e., about 7 to 1. How did you conduct your Google search? You obviously did it incorrectly. Again: this will be confusing (not "confuseing") to the many non-native speakers who are using (not "useing") Wikipedia to try to learn about both aging and English. Noah Webster had some flaky proposals. "Aging" wasn't one of them. WikiFair1 08:19, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

And humor/humour is 256,000,000 to 64,000,000, licorice/liquorice is 5,200,000 to 1,500,000, yogurt/yoghurt is 4,700,000 to 17,400,000. International English

terms are generally less popular than American English, but Wikipedia has a longstanding rule that we don't pick the most popular spelling. Instead we use the first spelling used for the article. If we adopted your system, Wikipedia would use nothing but American English. Also it should be noted that most people in the world are taught International English, so if anything this spelling benefits ESL learners. - SimonP 16:54, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

1) My point about the ratio wasn't an argument, I was correcting your research. (And my question wasn't rhetorical: how did you conduct your Google search?) I agree using the most popular spelling in general is a bad idea. 2) "International English" doesn't mean British or Commonwealth English. 3) Most people in the world are actually taught American English (Mexico and most of South America, most of Eastern Europe, most of China -- though not Hong Kong -- all of Japan). The "ageing" spelling harms ESL users, since A) it's one of the Commonwealth spellings that is particularly inconsistent with other -ing spellings. (Plenty of American spellings are illogical as well, though, to be sure!) B) it is the spelling used by most of the research community, even many people in England, such as Aubrey de Grey. And just look at the errors in the reference section (which I'm now going to correct, though someone will likely change them back). Names of books are incorrectly spelled with the "ageing" spelling. This will make it hard for people to track down the references. WikiFair1 07:30, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I clicked on the link to this article only cause of the misspelled title. Umm Idk, that breaks one of the few spelling conventions there are, plus it looks completely stupid. And I'm from Europe for that matter. 354d 16:09, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Your wrong with that, American English is only really taugh in the United States and some parts of South America. There is a reason Commonwealth English is also called International English. Almost all the countries with a huge number of ESL learners, such as those in South Asia, Africa, and Western Europe are all taught British English. Also please understand there was nothing wrong with my Google searches. I did not say aging and ageing are equal, I stated that they are only as unequal as any International/American spellings. - SimonP 17:59, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I am not wrong. Do some research. British English is taught lots of places, American English is also taught lots of places. In part because of China and Japan, the total number of ESL learners who are taught American English is higher. About "International English" -- that sometimes refers to American English, sometimes to British English, sometimes to something else entirely. In any event, I gather you have no interest in improving Wikipedia, but would rather promote your favorite variety of English. WikiFair1 05:59, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Try to cut down on the personal attacks, WikiFair. And I'm not going to take sides in this debate, but I'd just like to comment that 'aging' is the spelling I, personally, use (I'm Canadian). CameoAppearance 18:50, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Just to point up the fact that, to linguists,

1. "International English" *never* means British English or American English. It means "English as a global communication language."

2. "Commonweath English" doesn't mean really much.

As for the spelling thing, do as you please, I frankly don't give a damn. If you are interested in this topic, I suggest you read Pam Peters's "Cambridge Guide to English Usage."

JackLumber. 12:38, 27 June 2006 (UTC)—— TWIMC, humour/humor, licorice/liquorice, and yogurt/yoghurt have VERY, _*VERY*_, VERY, V_E_R_Y different backgrounds _*and*_ distributions. See American and British English spelling differences. JackLumber.

The Wikipedia:Manual of Styling (Spelling) lists either way for both British and American. So just simply leave it as it is, and avoid hassle.Shaizakopf 21:22, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

That's all good and fine... But Ageing looks ridiculous. Make it Aging. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Josh.norlander (talk • contribs) 23:50, 28 April 2007 (UTC).

I'm going to assume that you're not trolling. "Aging" looks wrong to me. To me it sounds like "hag-ing". Just realise that there's two ways to spell this word and neither is right nor wrong. They just are. Spelling difference discussions are a scourge of Wikipedia. They sap productivity due to ignorance. --Monotonehell 10:23, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Um you're wrong Agging sounds like hag-ing, but Aging def sounds like ayjing. 354d 16:17, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Is it not ironic to have some complain about "impropper (sic.) spelling? ! ACEOREVIVED 20:28, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spelling of article (as opposed to title)

SimonP wrote: "The rule is that the first spelling used should be used throughout, and ageing was the original spelling." For the record, that is not the rule, it is one of several rules. Another is the one I cited: "If an article is predominantly written in one type of English, aim to conform to that type rather than provoking conflict by changing to another." Throquzum violated the rule I cited, and provoked conflict. However, as I recall, you were the actual author of the first non-stub version, so I think your wishes should be respected, if it really matters to you that much. I reverted the changes for the simple reason that it is indeed a violation of policy, and did indeed seem likely to be provocative. But, again, I feel original non-stub authors should have a larger "vote" in these matters than others, even if that's just my feeling, not policy. Best, --Cultural Freedom talk 16:05, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

The spelling was ageing until an anon IP changed it to aging in May. Since then it has alternated between the two forms every few days. - SimonP 18:29, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Ah... I see that. The spelling should remain ageing throughoutt; sorry for my hastiness. --Cultural Freedom talk 18:41, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I only switched it back after seeing the original spelling throughout had been changed. This left the unusual situation of the title contradicting the entire article. -Throquzum 19:35, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I understand. I was in mindless bot-mode, and had recently immersed myself in Wikipolicy readings, without having synthesized it all very well... :) --Cultural Freedom talk 19:37, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] images

i couldn't help but notice that all of the photos on here are of women. maybe one of a man might be helpful. Joeyramoney 20:04, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Whats in a Name?

Why must you use such long names just to describe our elderly people. Most of the old people i know just like being called old people. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Chad wolfe (talk • contribs).

[edit] Evolution of ageing

Peter Medawar has written on this subject, but I think there are earlier sources, too. Absolutely must be included. - Samsara (talk • contribs) 13:20, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Page move

Which consensus is this based on? We had discussed this previously and come to the consensus that no action needed be taken. - Samsara (talk • contribs) 16:47, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I'll revert since you destroyed the edit history. I'm not convinced you're quite up to using the tools. - Samsara (talk • contribs) 16:49, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merging age and senescence

Senescence is just at the first physical level expanded to the next psychological an social levels of "ageing". As psychiatrist, I act in task force with social workers too.

Takima 19:09, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Merging them is a good idea, but ag(e)ing should be merged into senescence, not the other way around. BrianinStockholm 07:30, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

People are more likely to look up ageing than senescence and may get confused. I also like the principle of using ~~anglosaxon~~ short words where possible. - Samsara (talk • contribs) 15:52, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

The subject of Ageing is a Gerontology issue, whereas the Senescence article deals more with Biogerontology. Because biogerontology is a subcategory of gerontology, ie, senescence is a subcategory of ageing, it makes more sense to merge senescence into ageing rather than the other way around. Senescence would be a section in the ageing article. Both articles are already of reasonable length, however, and are easily found, so I see no great urgency for this merger, although I do not greatly oppose it either. --Ben Best 15:14, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Benbest, senescence is a subtopic of ageing. Since both articles are already quite substantial, the best idea is to have a brief summary of the senescence article here with a link to the full length article. - SimonP 18:42, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

As the saying goes, two are better than one. Do not merge either way (linking works just fine).

I agree that the 2 articles should be kept separate. Due to each article's substantial size, and due to the likelihood of the articles growing still larger. --Transhumanist 11:35, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

oppose merger these topics are huge and need expanding more. senescence is a natural sub article to aging. Anlace 02:46, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alternative to merge: expand "biology" section

Especially with a view to evolution of ageing. Clearly, the question why ageing occurs at all must be covered by the article. - Samsara (talk • contribs) 19:48, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Need for section on Successful Aging

Since Rowe and Kahn (1987) have distinguished between successful aging and normal aging, should there not be a sub-heading for "Successful aging"?ACEO 18:43, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

What is successful aging?? Georgia guy 18:44, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

The distinction goes back to an article published by Rowe and Kahn, in 1987, in the journal "Science" (their 1997 publication was in "The Gerontologist"). The title of this paper implied an attempt to distinguish "normal" ageing - where people suffer the detrimental effects of ageing, especially extrinsic factors - from "successful ageing" where extrinsic and detrimental factors play only a minimal function. ACEO 18:48, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I have now put in the Rowe and Kahn references. They occur at the end of the article. ACEO 18:40, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Claim at end of the article

The claim at the end of the article about usage of gold in India read rather as a tag-on after the section on successful ageing, so I have moved it to its own section. Can I please urge that some one finds a source for this claim and cites it? I have added how Aldwin and Gilmer prefer the term "optimal ageing" to successful ageing, and in my section on this, note some cultural variations in fear of death. This may go some way to rectification of an earlier concern about this article - that its views were not pancultural. ACEOREVIVED 09:16, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

No one has, as yet, added a source citation for that claim, so I have categorised this article accordingly. ACEOREVIVED 19:58, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you to some one who, during March 2007, removed that section on usage of gold in India. This was the unsourced claim that concerned me, so I wonder whether this can now be removed from the category of "Articles with unsourced statements from March 2007"? However, maybe people have noticed that other unsourced claims in this article. ACEOREVIVED 19:05, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This article reads like a personal essay.

IMHO.--h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 12:14, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of theories too brief

I think that the section on list of theories such as disengagement theories is far too list-like. More substantive notes are needed on these theories. ACEOREVIVED 20:47, 4 May 2007 (UTC) I have now extended the notes on disengagement and activity theories. However, there is a lot more literature on disengagement theory which could go here. Could some one with expertise in this area and the other theories listed here please extend the notes here? It seems a shame to have an important section here that reads as a list of bullet points. ACEOREVIVED 20:06, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Disambig

I was expecting an article about the heat treatment "aging". Does anybody have an idea where to find it? SietskeEN 13:00, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Maturity?

Where does the continuing process of wisdom development and maturation fit into the underlying developmental cycle? It seems to me that in human societies, the lessons of age are often highly valued. --NealMcB 03:42, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Hey I found this really cool equation for calculating how many days old you are that even includes leap years: [365y+(y/4)]+(-a+b) y is the amount of years old you are, a is the amount of days into the year to reach your birthday (negative), and b is the number of days into the year to reach the current date —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.248.232.32 (talk) 02:40, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Need for telomeres to be referred to in article

The concept of telomeres has been big in the study of ageing, yet is not mentioned here. ACEOREVIVED 20:14, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Personality

There are a lot of data on personality changes with age, suggesting that, for example, psychoticism tends to decline with age. Do we need a sub-section on "Ageing and Personality"? ACEOREVIVED 20:28, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Self-rated health needs attention

There is a considerable literature on Self-Rated Health (SRH) in the elderly, and the journal "The Gerontologist" made this a special feature in one of their 2003 editions. Should this receive more attention in this article? ACEOREVIVED (talk) 20:54, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I have now added reference to this topic in the section "Coping with demands of later life". I shall put the full references at the end when I have had time to check them. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 21:16, 22 November 2007 (UTC) The references to Bath, and to the other authors listed in this section, are now at the end of the article. Does any one consider this is enough to warrant its own section? ACEOREVIVED (talk) 20:36, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Making this article more comprehensive

This article, as the top of this page indicates, is part of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biology, but the study of aging is not simply the study of a biological phenomenon. Psychological and social aspects of aging should be considered in this article, and gerontology is certainly an interdisciplinary field. Can I suggest that perhaps some one ought to start "WikiProject Gerontology" in the interests of producing a comprehensive article? ACEOREVIVED (talk) 21:59, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I have now made a plea at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:COUNCIL/P#Gerontology; we will need five to ten Wikipedians who are interested to make this viable, so can you please spread the word! ACEOREVIVED (talk) 21:10, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Changes made to Article by Lauren Epstein

I copy edited this article by adding spelling changes and grammar changes. I also noticed the difference between aging and ageing in the article and feel that the entire article should be changed so that is says aging the entire time.

[edit] Aging is not always 'old'

Here's another suggestion for those who would improve the article -- as it stands now, it speaks of aging as though only old people do it. When you think about it, though, given that all humans (and all life forms) age from the get-go, it would be far more illuminating for an image (or images) to show multiple stages of human life, from infancy to old age, and for the article to discuss the significance to all of these in a psychological/socialogical context. 71.58.111.148 (talk) 20:09, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Nonsensical redirect

This article is currently redirecting to itself. I'm not sure where the article has been moved to so I can't fix it myself. Anyone who is able to: please do. I'll look into this further myseslf later tonight. If I get anywehere I'll correct the problem, score this message out, and give an update of the situation below. SuperlativeHors (talk) 20:01, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I noticed this, too, and alerted the two admins who performed a simultaneous redirect. Here's the amusing exchange that resolved the problem from the Admin board:

Need help on restoring Aging
While doing backlog clearing at CAT:CSD, I performed a housekeeping move from Aging (life cycle) to Aging. It appears that Jmlk17 and I had done it simultaneously, creating an endless chain of redirects. I got a notice on my user talk page notifying me, but my attempts to restore the history are futile. I really need help, please, restoring. bibliomaniac 15 Midway upon life's journey... 22:50, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Y Done Nousernamesleft^{copper, not wood} 23:18, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I could use some help restoring aging as well. Start with the grey hair, yes? Guy (Help!) 23:58, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Declined - If I can’t have my hair back, you’ll have to live with your gray. :P —Travis ^talk 00:55, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

--Yamara ✉ 12:17, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Haha, that's a good one. Glad to see everything's been sorted. Thanks SuperlativeHors (talk) 15:48, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Poor quality

There is a profound amount of bullshit and speculative theories presented as fact in this article. Any cleanup by someone with a science degree would be much appreciated. I'll take a pass if I stumble upon some time... Thanks! --Xris0 (talk) 17:49, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

The demographic aspects need to be kept here, and the general biological aspects sent off to Senescence. Lord Uniscorn (talk) 21:42, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reference for personality and aging

A section on personality changes with age is needed in this article, and the following referece:

Rushton, J.P., Fulker, D.W., Neale, M.C., Nias, D.K et al. (1989) Ageing and the relation of aggression, altruism and assertivenss scales to the Eysenck Personality Questionnaire" Personality and Individual Differences, 10 (2) 261-263

goes some way to providing a reference for how attributes associated with psychoticism may decline with age. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 19:05, 30 March 2008 (UTC)