Talk:Afro-Arab

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What is the origin of this term? Are there significant numbers of individuals and/or communities who self-identify this way? Are there people who don't self-identify this way but are typically so labelled by the larger society they live in? These questions need to be answered here or this article is junk. Right now the article is vague and is making some big claims (like questions of denied Afro Arab identity are responsible for the Sudan genocide...

Contents 1 POV, this article is biassed 2 --- 3 Bias 4 Afro Arab 5 Reverted edits 6 What large Afro-Arab population does Egypt have? 7 Sudan

[edit] POV, this article is biassed

Yo man. YOM, same guy from arab slave trade, bringing your POV here, drop the POV or i will edit the article. Bringing the conflict in Sudan is completely out of context and un-necessary, this article is about AFRO-ARABS - there are millions. AFRICANS, and ARABS mixed, having intermarriage and children - simple as that. Gmflash

What are you talking about? I didn't refer to the conflict in Sudan. The only edits I had on this page were 4 correcting the false claim that Eritreans, Somalis, and Djiboutians were Afro-Arab and including data on the Rashaida (the only Arabs in the region, who are only "Afro-Arab" in the sense that they reside in Africa and are Arabs). I also had one edit reverting an IP removing info about variations in ancestry and appearance of Arabs. So, I think you have my edits confused with those of somebody else. As for the Arab slave trade, the only thing I really did there was to correct info on the slaves coming out of the border regions of Ethiopia and the Arab presence as traders on the coast. I never removed the neutrality tags and the like that you added, so do not confuse my actions with those of others. It's all in the page histories, so you can review them for yourself. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 08:54, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok I see, I apologize you didnt put those things in, but you didnt change them either. You were perfectly happy to go along with the biases in both the Arab Slave trade article and this one. Instead of people fixing minor grammar, how about fixing the main source of factual innacuracy and unsourced propaganda? I would rather have a correct, unbiassed article with incorrect grammar than a false, propaganda article with correct grammar. Gmflash 03:35, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I didn't want to get involved in either of those issues because I don't consider myself informed enough to make a good decision. I have my own idea as to what Afro-Arab should refer to, but not enough information on its historical and current usage. Likewise with the name of the eastern slave trade (Arab, Muslim, whatever) and what it's historically been referred to as. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:27, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ---

"they have long lost african identities"?? WHO said this? name ONE afro-arab who says they have long lost African identity. This is a contradiction in the nature of AFRO-ARAB, their definition is AFRO - arab, so how can they lose half of their identity. Ofcourse they claim they are ARABS. because they ARE Arabs. They speak ARABIC and have arab blood, but they also have African blood. People in Africa, North Africa, and parts of the Middle East have mixed bloods for thousands of years, resulting in Afro-arabs, afro-berbers, berber arabs, islamic africans, etc. etc. it could go on. just like Black Brazillians, wont say we are black - brazillian, just afro-brazillian, or to a non-brazillian, would not even say that, they wood just say "brazillian" cos they speak Portugese and have brazillian culture and most likely have non-african blood as well (ie. native american or portugese as well). So too, afro-arabs or Africans living in Arab countries adopt arabic culture, (many through Islam), and gradually became Arabic - ie. islamic/arab names. inter-marriage etc.

You are sick. you are exploiting the situation in Sudan to trick black people into hating arabs and "afro-arabs". You are trying to make it out as an arab/afro-arab conspiracy to hate and kill blacks, or at least put people in that frame of mind. But how can this be? Afro-arabs ARE Black. Your arguments are weak and your logic is twisted, wont be tolerated. Get real man, stop being such a damn fool and grow up. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gmflash (talk • contribs) 10:51, 3 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Bias

"The largest group of Afro-Arabs were acquired through Arab conquest" (?? what does this statement really mean? What is it implying? That Afro-Arabs are some sort of outcast breed? That somehow because they have an arab mix they can no longer be considered African?).Where is the evidence for this? It doesnt even make any grammatical sense. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gmflash (talk • contribs) 08:25, 4 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Afro Arab

There is another definition of Afro Arab, which is people who are culturally Arab but racially African, like people who have lived in Arabia for thosands of years. Arab isnt a race so i think we need to add this hear because to be Afro-Arab doesnt mean not to be 100% African. Just like African-American most def doesnt mean not to be African.--Halaqah 13:22, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

- Yeh I see what you mean. Yeh, exactly, well "race" is a subjective term in itself, because it can only be measured in comparison to other "races", and this is all arbitrary really. ie. Cavalli-Sforza population genetics study. Arab is not a race as such, definitely a language, but its a collection of similar traits, customs, culture etc. united by the Arabic language, similar to notion of "Latino" in the Americas. but how to phrase this in the article? Gmflash

I disagree. A person who is 100% African is not Afro-Arab. In order to be Afro-Arab you must have Arab blood.

[edit] Reverted edits

/Man, where can i start? You havent sourced anything yet your article is making some peculiar claims. That an ancient arabian tribe looked like modern day African Americans?? I dont see why only African American, why not just African? And even so there is no proof for such things, and if there is, provide your source. Also, there is no history of ancient Aryan tribes going into and enslaving people in the Arabian peninsula or Africa, yes they had protectorates, vassal states, but generally people under Persian rule were treated well, ie. Cyrus charter for human rights, the first ever human rights record in history of human civilisation, so that even conquered people would have a chance to live in peace. see - history of Iran. Please dont make such claims as they are offensive. Also,

"present day arabs are a mixture of iranians and tribes of iranians from india and in no way are the ancient arribi(arabs) The ancient arribi were the yaruba tribe. This is why the transliteration name sounds the same because they are the same people and they got kicked out of mecca and crossed into what today is called africa"

This is just ignorance, Arabs and Persians speak a different language, (arabic for arabs, farsi for persians). They have different customs, culture, etc. but share a common religion, Islam. The arabs have inhabited the arabian penisula for recorded history, maybe they werent as light skinned but certainly, since Arabic language is the unifying factor among arabs, it is very likely that there were both light and dark skinned arabs inhabiting the Arabian peninsula since ancient times. ie. Look at Somalians, they speak Arabic, or Arabic-related languages, but are also black, but also share some Arab features as well. As for iranians, they are united by the common language of farsi, and trace their ancestry back to ancient Iranian empires, (Aryans, Cyrus, Darius, etc.) but also probably share ancestry with Arabs, (through Islam), Kurds, Turks, Mongols (Mongol invasions of Iran), and Punjabis (Pakistan, etc.)

"They were small and slender and had oval faces with long limbs and slight chin with aquiline nose slanted to round eyes, curly to frizzy kinky hair and black skin to dark brown and brown skin."

This is complete speculation, and rather irrelevant to the article anyway. There is no way you could know or describe how inhabitants of ancient Arabia looked like, especially not to that detail, where is the source>?.

Somalis speak Somali, an Afro-Asiatic language that's only distantly related to Arabic. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:30, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes i know somalis speak Somali, however many also speak Arabic as a second langusge (its taught in schools and is a large part of formal literature etc.). The fact that Somali and Arabic are both Afro-Asiatic languages, and many words are shared infact shows that they are closely related, I have Somali friends and when i hear them speak it sounds very much like Arabic, I could not tell the difference between ppl speaking Somali and Arabic.

Gmflash 13:15, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What large Afro-Arab population does Egypt have?

Egypt doesn't have a sizable Afro-Arab national population along the lines of Mauritania. If it is Nubians that this article meant, then Nubians (by all definitions of the word including self identification) are not Arabs. There are dark skinned Egyptians, but even they are clearly distinct even from the most Arabized Northern Sudanese and they neither self identify as African nor are they identified as such by the rest of the Arab world or by African populations. There is though a small number of people who are clearly of African ancestry, Arabized, and not Nubian, but nothing similar to Mauritania or even Morocco. I have removed reference to Egypt, be my guest to reformat the statement to satisfy above reservations.

On another note, this article is extremely weak. What exactly is the central piece of information it tries to translate? What is the main argument? Is it racial? Because for most Arabs race is marginal to culture and language. So is it history? I recommend this article be deleted or restructured and reworded fundamentally.

--Karkaron 08:31, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sudan

From my understanding and from the encyclopedias I read, Sudanese people are not afro arabs by the defintion of being mixed with Arab. They said those mixed with arab are about 1% of all arabs however the population does have lots of africans who are of arabic culture.

• Yes, and Afro-Arab does not only mean people who are mixed, but also black people who identify as Arabs on cultural and linguistic grounds. After all, Arabs are not a race. Funkynusayri (talk) 14:09, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

"The Darfur conflict is among Arab and non-Arab speaking black Africans of many ethnicities in Sudan."

The janjaweed militia is from Darfur. The rebels are from Darfur. They all speak Arabic (and may also speak other languages, depending on tribal affiliation). The conflict is not about race, religion, or ethnicity, because the people fighting amongst one another do not differ in race, religion, or ethnicity. One of the references[[1]] for this statement specifically refers to this "Arab versus African" classification as inaccurate, dangerous, and troubling, so you're basically contradicting your alleged source of information.Shirazness (talk) 06:33, 27 May 2008 (UTC)