Talk:Aeronca Aircraft

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Comments: edit  · history  · watch  · purge A lot of good information, and most of the required info, but needs expansion. - Trevor MacInnis (Contribs) 21:02, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
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Kindly set the image to a more manageable size? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.218.222.31 (talk • contribs) 17:19, 11 April 2005 (UTC).

[edit] Individual Aeronca aircraft types

It seems that there's a distinct lack of Wikipedia articles about individual Aeronca aircraft types. Given their importance in U.S. civil aircraft history, surely the Champ and Chief deserve their own articles. Is anybody already working on this? If not, I might be willing to take up the challenge. Carguychris 15:28, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I am a previous owner of an Aeronca chief, and will begin working on an article for it. Shoe1127 18:39, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

The copy of Jane's that I have includes stats for three Aeroncas - the L-3 Grasshopper, Model 65 Super-Chief, and Defender. The L-3 already is pretty set, but I'll get the others typed up shortly and start some stubs. ericg ✈ 03:53, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

On this note, it would really seem that information about the particular models has taken over this article--which seems to be the same thing once in light detail and then repeated in a little more detail. Maybe I'm thinking about this the wrong way, but I would think the article should focus more on details of the corporation and its history, leaving the details of particular aircraft to articles on each design. There's a lot about the company that just doesn't come up here--their various locations, the reasons for some of the moves (flood, etc.), the name change. Can anyone offer some wisdom on this? I don't want to just start hacking away. SkipperPilot 19:09, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

No, you're absolutely right. This isn't the place for anything more than a list of aircraft. Hack away! ericg ✈ 22:31, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I think I'm going to start at the top, add and incorporate where appropriate, then cut. SkipperPilot 01:17, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good. I already duplicated the Aeronca C-2 at its own page - I'll start work on a table of models much like that at List of Lockheed aircraft in a bit. ericg ✈ 05:37, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hacking Away

Guys, before you start "hacking away" at this page lets get the other pages done first. I was the person who started this page on Wiki, and considering that I am on the board of directors for the National Aeronca Assoc, owned Aeronca's for the last 35 years, and help "Aeronca people" on a bulletin board on a daily basis, it kinda perturbs me to see that someone has:

1. Deleted almost all the photos that everyone posted of the Aeronca's and replaced them with ones from England. The Aeronca was not made in England. If you really have to have a Aeronca showing "G" reg on the tail, then pls post one or two from there and leave the rest. Aeronca is not a British product!

2. Deleted the reference to "Aeronca club of Germany." You and I know who won the war but to make a comment like was done on the history page, and stay pissed off at them for 70 years is enough. I have returned the link to www.aeronca.de at the bottom of the page and if its deleted again will contact the moderators about it. WW2 ended a long time ago, get over it!

3. Someone deleted the entire copy about the 11AC Chief but left every other aircraft on the page. Why? If you are going to take all the planes off of this page, which I strongly disagree with as airplanes are what made Aeronca, then copy the information to another Wiki page designated to the Champ, Chief and so on. I just spent 45 minutes returning the 11AC to the page. Lets leave it there.

Now, lets move on and make the page one of the best on Wiki. I have owned and restored three Aeronca's and have one sitting out in the hangar right now. Love the planes and lets make it show here.

Joe A

Dear "Joe A"

Thank you for coming to the discussion page. You seem to misunderstand the entire nature of Wikipedia. While we absolutely value your contributions, please keep the following in mind:

1. While Aeronca may not be a British product, so far User:Arpingstone is the only person to contribute public domain images of Aeronca aircraft. Since he lives in the United Kingdom, this means that all (or most) of the aircraft he photographs will have British registrations on them. They should not be removed strictly because they are registered in the "wrong" country.
2. What Wikipedia is not, specifically Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files. While the link to the German Aeronca website is on topic and not a direct burden to the list of links, the website is in German. While there is no specific policy stating one way or the other, my personal rule of thumb is to link only to web pages use English. If you want to include the German Aeronca site, then perhaps a page about Aeronca on the German Wikipedia would be appropriate? In case you weren't aware, there are multiple versions of Wikipedia (one for each language on the planet) and articles are not automatically translated between them.
3. At one point, a couple of people suggested removing individual aircraft from the main article and splitting them out into individual articles. As with many things in life, the project was not immediately followed up on, and while not quite abandoned, it was left in an unfinished state. Thank you for restoring the information on the Chief, but please don't assume bad faith.

A couple of other notes on Wikipedia ettiquette. Keep in mind that, even though you started the page, it is not "yours"; it is "ours". You contributed under a licence that allows anyone to edit your content, or even remove the content as deemed necessary. Also, it is considered good form to sign postings on discussion pages with ~~~~ at the end, which automatically inserts your username and the current time and date.

Again, thanks for your contributions. McNeight 18:28, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

The photos that I contributed were ones I took at the National Aeronca Association Fly-in and have been opened up for anyone's use several years ago. They have been published on many websites and publications, and are available for anyone's use for free.

Now about the English photos. The gent you mentioned deleted photos and replaced them that he had taken, saying that the others were "not good quality" when there was nothing wrong with the photos. If he wants to put his photos up, then do it next to the others, but to make up a excuse based on quality is not correct.

The German website is in both English and German on many pages. Just looked there and there are multiple pages in both languages. In case you are not familiar with aviation, English is the official language of all airmen. If you fly, you normally have to know and understand English. That's why at least half of the German Aeronca site is in both languages.

Considering that I have lived in 6 countries so far in life, speak three languages and travel the world as a pilot, yes, I do know that there is a Wikipedia in many languages. Make an Aeronca page on the German Wikipedia? In English? Then I would be told by the MODs of the German Wiki to move it to an English site! I would have love to link to a Wiki page on the German version but there is none at this time and considering that I am not German, am not going to try to write one. If you speak German would be happy to help you with it but no way I could do it.

I know full well that this is not "my" page, its a public site. I have my own website but when I see people using poor excuses to post their photos and delete others (and not all of those whose were deleted were mine) as well as as well as removing links to a German site because its "simply irritating to the English" then its time to say something. The last time I looked Germany was one of our Allies, no? The others can remove all they want to, but as long as its done in the manner as above I am free to put it right back.

Agree with part of the issue on the planes on the website. While I agree that individual pages can and probably should be made on the planes, to delete all of them from the page is not something that I can agree with. Sorry, but Aeronca was the first company to make the light plane in America, and did so for almost 25 years. Their planes have taught hundreds of thousands of people to fly and taking the actual airplanes off of the main page is too much.

Joe A ~~~~

For the photographs, you not only need to upload them specifically to Wikipedia (we can't just go around grabbing images and assuming they are free), but you also need to spell out which licence they are under. For example your picture Image:3230e front .JPG, while useful, isn't specifically labelled as free for anyone to use. This tends to have it treated with "lesser status" than images which are explicitly labelled as free.

Also, there isn't as much information about the aircraft in the picture. I can see that it is an Aeronca, and I can guess from the name of the file that it is N3230E, and from that I can look up and see that it is specifically an 11AC, but having some of that written up in the description of the image would help a great deal.

For the German Aeronca link, keep in mind that you can't keep re-adding the link, just as I can't keep deleting the link. There is what is called the Three-revert rule, which helps to keep articles from becoming "revert wars". I'm not so wrapped around the axle as to get into a revert war over a single link, but please try to keep the bigger picture in mind. Adding links to Aeronca associations in various countries can become lengthy, and doesn't necessarily contribute to the overall quality of the article.

The reason I suggested the German Wikipedia is that the link would be of more use there. I don't speak German, and I didn't know if you did or not, but my suggestion for a new article over there was meant to be one in German. Someone took the time to write or translate the Aeronca L-3 article into German, so there must be at least one German Aeronca fan on Wikipedia.

You are right about Aeronca aircraft being an important part of flight training, even to this day. I am getting my Sport Pilot licence in a 7AC, partially due to availability and partially because my 6 foot 4 inch, 280 pound frame will not fit into newer European LSA aircraft. Pretty impressive for an airplane designed before my mother was born!

One small side note; the four tildes need to be all by themselves to work. I put the <nowiki> tag around them so that you could see the actual '~' characters, and not the automatic substitution of my signature. McNeight 20:32, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Not Hacking Away, but Going Away: I have no desire to get involved in a pissing contest here over who loves the Aeronca Corporation or its products more. As I used the phrase first, I would point out that reading more carefully might have helped; what I actually said was that "I don't want to just start hacking away" (emphasis added), and further that in working on this page I was going to "add and incorporate where appropriate, then cut." Anyway, sorry for treading on your turf. Hmm... Suddenly working on the Aeronca page isn't fun anymore, so I'm headed for a page that is. Have a nice day. SkipperPilot 16:25, 25 August 2006 (UTC)