Talk:Advantage gambling

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	Advantage gambling is part of WikiProject Gambling, an attempt at building a useful gambling resource. If you would like to participate, you can choose to edit the article attached to this page (see Wikipedia:Contributing FAQ for more information).
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Contents 1 Title 2 Comp Hustling 3 References? 4 In most jurisdictions

[edit] Title

The title Advantage Gambling may not make sense. Advantage players do not consider themselves gamblers any more than stock traders. Either they both are gamblers or neither are gamblers as they both bet with positive expectation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Objective3000 (talk • contribs) 11:32, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Betting with a positive expectation is still gambling. Winning poker is gambling. Betting 10,000 to win 10,001 on a coin flip is gambling. 2005 12:29, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

This conversation came up in one of the poker articles too. It's the betting that makes it gambling, not the negative expectation. Rray 12:48, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Not surprised it has come up. Buying a Put is betting. And with much higher variance than most casino games. I have no problem with the term gambling. As long as it also applies to day-traders, hedge funds, Insurance companies, etc. But, advantage players, about whom this section is writen, will nearly 100% disagree with the title. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Objective3000 (talk • contribs) 13:33, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

The chances a cardcounter doesn't think they are gambling are close to none, but that isn't relevant anyway. We are making an encyclopedia, not an encounter group. Having an edge isn't the relevant item in gambling. Risk on a game or contest of an uncertain outcome is. 2005 14:01, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry but what are you talking about? Do you really believe a hedge fund manager believes he has certainty of outcome? No, he and the BJ player have a CE. A Certainty Equivalence. A value of a bet. I've been a Blackjack card counter for over 30 years trained by Revere. I also happen to be a partner in a hedge fund. Risk is an extremely important concept in both fields. Just look at the current market and the billions lost in the sub-prime market as an example. Objective3000 02:09, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

What exactly are you talking about? Go to the hedge fund article if you want to talk about that. 2005 03:53, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I think the title is okay because it specifically describes ways to beat a casino. Sure, some professional gamblers might get a little pissy about calling their play "gambling" but the title is good for the general public to understand what the hell we're talking about. Advantage play would be okay, but I don't think it's as descriptive for the layman. I certainly can't imagine it would be useful to include information about stock trading or hedge funds, even though the concepts are similar. Adding some links to these articles might help, though.GusChiggins21 (talk) 09:03, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comp Hustling

You can hustle comps while still being at a disadvantage. Slot or roulette players could hustle for more comps, but still not be playing at an advantage. You're just maximizing your comps. You have to be doing it in a specific way, by playing games with a low house edge, and maximizing your rating while minimizing your actual bet size, and be playing at a casino that gives enough of a percentage back, to be playing at an advantage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by GusChiggins21 (talk • contribs) 09:55, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] References?

What statements need references? GusChiggins21 (talk) 19:42, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

I tagged the article with citation needed tags, but pretty much everything that gets included that isn't simple common sense requires a citation. Anything that is likely to be challenged or anything that is challenged demands a reference to a reliable source. Rray (talk) 22:23, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] In most jurisdictions

I noticed that the words "in most jurisdictions" were added to the passage about advantage gambling being legal. Is it illegal in some jurisdictions and legal in others? No citation was included for the change, so I was curious what this is based on. It seems like a vague addition. Rray (talk) 15:07, 30 January 2008 (UTC)