Talk:Adolph Wagner
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[edit] anti-semitism
From the Clark article, Wagner's own statement: "The anti-Semitic tendency of Stoecker and myself, and of those whom we represent, has not proceeded against the Jews as a religious party, but against the evil practices in economic and social life which unfortunately spring in large part from our Jewish fellow-citizens." There are more statements of him in the article, but this will suffice. Intangible 22:07, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
- I've got a problem with that anti-semitism cat.
- 1. if you want to use it, the anti-semitism should be mentioned in the article.
- 2. you're only source is a 1940 article, that seems to be calling a national socialist a man that died in 1917...
- --O'Fizzy 22:40, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
- Wagner was co-founder of the Christian Social Party. Would such a reference in the text be enough to categorize him, along with the above statement? Intangible 00:30, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks !--O'Fizzy 07:53, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
- And about calling Wagner a "national socialist," that doesn't seem to be far off. He advocated State Socialism along with nationalism, semitism and imperialism. Intangible 00:38, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
- To call Wagner a national socialist is not only really ignorant but also really dumb, because that way you generalize whatit is to be a nazi too much. The article cited is war propaganda of the primitive kind. What does State Socialism have to do with National Socialism? That's just bizarre. And if you call all anti-semitic nationalist imperialists nazis, then almost the entire leadership of the US and Britain around 1890, 1900 would qualify for that. That way, what you are saying is that everybody is a nazi, and so nobody is a nazi anymore. Antisemitism isn't what makes you a nazi, eliminatory antisemitism is.Manthey9 06:53, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
- The author made the argument based, among others, on Wagner's involvement in the Alldeutscher Verband. Intangible 15:53, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
- Exactly, which is ahistoric and dumb, but again, this article is war propaganda and doesn't need to adhere to any standards of scholarship (which it doesn't, and this is why the article is never used in any Wagner literature, including the English-language one). But this is not half as bad as your own remark, "calling Wagner a "national socialist," that doesn't seem to be far off. He advocated State Socialism along with nationalism, semitism and imperialism." If state socialism, nationalism, [anti-]semitism [of the Wagner kind] and imperialism make you a Nazi, then that's not much; it's a pretty run-off-the-mill 1900 position shared by most professors and politicians in Anglo-America as well. Bizarre is okay, but exculpating the Nazis and obscuring the delineations is not. Numwquad 19:10, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
- The author made the argument based, among others, on Wagner's involvement in the Alldeutscher Verband. Intangible 15:53, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
- To call Wagner a national socialist is not only really ignorant but also really dumb, because that way you generalize whatit is to be a nazi too much. The article cited is war propaganda of the primitive kind. What does State Socialism have to do with National Socialism? That's just bizarre. And if you call all anti-semitic nationalist imperialists nazis, then almost the entire leadership of the US and Britain around 1890, 1900 would qualify for that. That way, what you are saying is that everybody is a nazi, and so nobody is a nazi anymore. Antisemitism isn't what makes you a nazi, eliminatory antisemitism is.Manthey9 06:53, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
- Wagner was co-founder of the Christian Social Party. Would such a reference in the text be enough to categorize him, along with the above statement? Intangible 00:30, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
