Talk:Administrative divisions of China

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Administrative divisions of China article.
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[edit] section break

this map distinctly calls the HK SAR an administrative division. I hope I never see this conversation again as it has occurred about ten times on different articles. SchmuckyTheCat 15:58, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

As I read from discussion above and relevant ones elsewhere, opponents have kept asking for constitutional and legal evidence. Proponents of calling special administrative regions province level divisions keep failing to provide such evidence. Shall we go with loosely defined and casual usage, or shall we be strict and serious in contributing to an encyclopedia? Michael G. Davis 21:58, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
http://www1.cei.gov.cn/ce/region/Chinamap.htm SchmuckyTheCat
Do you know if there is any evidence from constitutional or legal materials? Michael G. Davis 20:10, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This article is not NPOV

The very first glimpse of this article confirms that it is not NPOV..look at the tables on the right hand side. They are all relevant to the PRC only. This only serves to re-inforce the popular idea that China = PRC and only the PRC. These tables should be removed, or tables also relevant to the ROC, Hong Kong and Macau added.


[edit] This article is about the PRC

  1. Political divisions of the People's Republic of China and Administrative divisions of the People's Republic of China both redirect here, and have for a while based on previous moves.
  2. Numerous templates, use this article as their basis when referencing political divisions of the PRC.
  3. Administrative divisions of the Republic of China is a separate article.
  4. There are about 800 incoming links. I examined about a dozen as a sample, and I've yet to see one that is meaning to find ROC information in this article.

In April I removed information that was specific to the ROC from this article. It's confusing to find ROC information in the middle of a PRC article, more importantly, the ROC has its own article. This was removed, as were dab headers and a PRC-specific template

The appropriate split for these articles is pretty basic. The PRC article should define how the PRC divides its territory, and claimed territory. The ROC article should define how the ROC divides its territory, and claimed territory.

Based on this, I'm restoring the PRC specific stuff that was removed, and again removing things specific to the ROC that are duplicated from the ROC article. Please discuss what problems you see in this. SchmuckyTheCat

I came across this article two years ago. It was not PRC centric as far as I remember. Divisions of China dates back to the imperial dynasties and the ROC era. Therefore it requires an article to discuss it generally. Malaer (talk) 18:33, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Requested Move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus. JPG-GR (talk) 17:17, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Given the current NPOV conventions, this article should be renamed to "Administrative divisions of the People's Republic of China". It is clearly a political topic, and so in any other article we would be using "PRC" instead of "China". While I believe, and have argued extensively on talk:China, that the common meaning for "China" is the PRC, there has been no consensus on that point. So long as that remains the case, this article needs to be called "Administrative divisions of the People's Republic of China" Readin (talk) 13:55, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Oppose. I don't see any reason to comply with conventions that never had consensus. --slashem (talk) 14:41, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Oppose. No consensus either way. Unnecessary moves are WP:POINTy SchmuckyTheCat (talk)
  • Support as suggested title is unambiguous. 70.55.86.34 (talk) 04:39, 16 May 2008 (UTC) — 70.55.86.34 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • Support Both this move and Readin's proposal below. Choosing "China" as a shorthand for the PRC is POV. There should be one article for the ROC, one for the PRC, and one for Historical administrative divisions of China, which could be at this name or at the name in the prior redlink or possibly Administrative divisions of imperial China. -Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:25, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Undo cutting off ROC centric materials. Malaer (talk) 18:38, 16 May 2008 (UTC) — Malaer (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
that INs't really related to the issue of the move. SchmuckyTheCat (talk)

[edit] Tangential discussion

Perhaps we need three articles - one focused on PRC, one focused on history, and one focused on ROC. Or as an alternative we could just put the historical stuff here if we decide to keep this article about the PRC. Making this article about both the PRC and ROC would be confusing and extremely difficult to maintain NPOV. This article already has an NPOV problem because it purports to be about administrative divisions of "China", yet it shows Taiwan as an administrative division. If the article were called "Administrative divisions of the People's Republic of China", the fictional Taiwan Province would fit into the article as a fiction of the PRC. But right now the article is supposedly about China, the connection is unclear. Readin (talk) 22:07, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

No problem creating an article on the historical development of the admin divisions. Excellent topic.
Taiwan is an administrative division of the PRC. Even if they don't control it, they have a political structure for it. Since there is no consensus about using China as shorthand for the PRC, pretending that articles about the PRC titled China aren't about the PRC simply for the sake of unasked for non-consensual consistency is disruptive. I ask this with all politeness: don't kick hornets nests, please. SchmuckyTheCat (talk)

Then we should split the article into three: pre 1949, administrative divisions of PRC, and administrative divisions of ROC.Readin (talk) 06:38, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

[edit] "Da dui?"

I am wondering whether this administrative designation should fit under certain levels of administration, due to the fact that many of these "Da dui" (lit "large detatchment" are very autonomous, incorporate many people and wield substatial powers. This, and also some special PLA administrations acting like local governments should pherhaps be explained or at least mentioned in the "special cases"- section.


/anon

[edit] Requirements for each subdivision

What are the requirements for the following subdivisions in population, area etc.? jlog3000 (talk) 15:32, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

  • Province (省 Shěng)
  • Autonomous Region (自治区 Zìzhìqū)
  • Direct-Controlled Municipality (直辖市 Zhíxiáshì)
  • Special Administrative Region (特别行政区 Tèbié Xíngzhèngqū)
  • Prefecture (地区 Dìqū)
  • Autonomous Prefecture (自治州 Zìzhìzhōu)
  • Prefecture-Level City (地级市 Dìjíshì)
  • Sub-Provincial City (副省级城市 Fushěngjíshì)
  • League (盟 Méng)
  • County (县 Xiàn)
  • Autonomous County (自治县 Zìzhìxiàn)
  • County-Level City (县级市 Xiànjíshì)
  • Sub-Prefecture-Level City (副地級市 Fudìjíshì)
  • District (市辖区 Qū or Shìxiáqū)
  • Banner (旗 Qí)
  • Autonomous Banner (自治旗 Zìzhìqí)
  • Forestry Status District (林区 Línqū)
  • Special Status District (特区 Tèqū)
  • Township (乡 Xiāng)
  • Ethnic Township (民族乡 Mínzúxiāng)
  • Towns (镇 Zhèn)
  • Sub-District (街道办事处 Jiēdào or Jiēdàobànshìchù)
  • District Public Office (区公所 Qūgōngsuǒ)
  • Sumu (苏木 Sūmù)
  • Ethnic Sumu (民族苏木 Mínzúsūmù)
  • Neighborhood Committee (社区居民委员会 Jūmínwěiyuánhùi)
    • Neighborhood or Community (社区)
  • Village Committee (村民委员会 Cūnmínwěiyuánhùi) or Village Group (村民小组 Cūnmínxiǎozǔ)
    • Administrative Village (行政村 Xíngzhèngcūn)
    • Natural Village (自然村 Zìráncūn)
Mostly it's politics and tradition. SchmuckyTheCat (talk)