Talk:Acid2/Archive 1

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[edit] Coverage of Test?

The intent of this test seemed to be to goad Microsoft into improving its layout rendering in fundamental ways. While passing the test is no small feat, shouldn't the article contain a note about the general coverage of the test, that is to say, the test actually doesn't test basics, but is a specific 'stumper' test, whose value is minimal as long as Microsoft ignores the challenge?

[edit] Specifics on the test

Does anyone know what this test specifically tests? Is this really too technical to be included here? My first reaction to the this article is "why on earth is it so hard for these browsers to render allegedley standard HTML?" . --Njerseyguy 21:20, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I believe it essentially tests proper rendering of HTML, CSS, PNG and Data URLs, but also how browsers handle invalid code. Full details can be found on their guide page. --ADeveria 21:22, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures

What about adding *some* pictures to illustrate this article? I was thinking about one or two screenshots of browsers _incorrectly_ displaying the test...
FiP Как вы думаете? 08:48, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I was thinking of this too, seems like a good idea. Mostly just wasn't sure where to begin or what to include. But probably IE6 and/or IE7's renderings would make most sense to have. Maybe also other browser's abilities at exactly the time the test was released? --ADeveria 12:09, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps add a screenshot of a browser correctly rendering the acid 2 test, such as Opera 9(which I happen to be using right now) or Safari or simular. But Opera is probably the best well know out of the ones that have passed and is the only windows browser that passes. Beta or otherwise. It sucks but it just happens that the majority of people use windows.
Robert Maupin 23:41, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
What's the point in a screenshot of a browser correctly passing the test? The image looks just like the reference rendering, and we already have an image of the reference rendering. --X-Man 03:43, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Outdated Test

The test is VERY different now. It can be found at http://www.webstandards.org/action/acid2/

[edit] Acid1

What ever happened to the acid1 test? what if browsers want to try that test out now? and doesn't that test also need an article page? 165.230.46.144 18:16, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Visit: http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/CSS1/current/test5526c.htm. 217.44.169.222 18:36, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This seems stupid, how can a browser fail to display a low-res smiley face?

(Question asked by 68.161.207.101)

The smiley face is not encoded in a simple way. Different parts of the face uses different features of of HTML and CSS. Any browser which does not correctly and completely support all of the features which Acid2 uses will not render the page correctly. --PeR 20:59, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The markup is valid contrary to what this article says

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.webstandards.org%2Ffiles%2Facid2%2Ftest.html&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&group=0

Going to remove corresponding sentence from the article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.208.171.146 (talk) 14:49, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

The HTML is valid. The CSS is not, as was originally stated by the article. See here
Dnas the Great 16:34, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Acid test is broken

The acid2 test is currently refering to a page it isn't supposed to refer to. A page is down and it is showing a 404 page while not throwing the 404 error meaning all web browsers should fail to render it "correctly" now. Please hold of editing which webbrowsers that can handle it since it will be missguiding right now. Lyml (talk) 03:30, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Ah, that's what's going on. I was wondering what happened. Thanks for the info! —Remember the dot (talk) 05:01, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The test was broken.

FYI to all those people who are editing the page taking Opera out, claiming Opera stopped passing it, etc: The test is currently BROKEN. No browser works with it at the moment. Their service provider apparently started throwing response 200 (success) instead of error 404, which broke the test because handling certain types of errors is one thing it tests. CobraA1 (talk) 11:47, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=289480#c172 http://my.opera.com/haavard/blog/2007/12/20/acid2-fails-the-acid2-test

The test is now fixed, as far as I know. If it breaks again PLEASE do not immediately start changing the page saying Opera does not pass the test etc unless you are sure it is Opera's fault. CobraA1 (talk) 11:48, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is the downtime worth mentioning?

The Acid2 test was broken for two days, from December 19 to December 21. I do not think that this is significant enough to be worth mentioning. All web sites have issues and problems from time to time, and the issue with Acid2 only lasted a couple of days, which is really not very much. I would like to remove mention of the downtime from this article. Our readers have more important things to read about. —Remember the dot (talk) 06:39, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not gonna turn this into an edit war, so I'm not gonna revert. But I still think it was relevant, especially since it happened around the time IE8 announced it "passed" the Acid2 test (which is now in doubt) and caused quite a ruckus in several places I frequent. CobraA1 (talk) 05:17, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Browser final releases

With the new final releases of IE7 and Fx 2.0, those pictures should be in the article instead of the beta/test images. 165.230.46.144 18:20, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Safari was the first to pass the Acid2 test completely

I'm changing the line saying Safari didn't pass Acid2 first because it didn't hide the scrollbars, as it does on my Safari, and I don't know how long it's been like that... Just look at the date here, http://mac1.no/node/1659 way before Opera 9.

[edit] Safari 3 for Windows fails Acid2

According to the Acid2 staff, Safari 3 for Windows fails the tests. If this is so, then it should be removed from the timeline.

But Safari 3.0.1 for Windows passes.

Mac pass, windows one failed. 203.185.57.117 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 00:36, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Konq and iCab do not pass Acid2!

The only browsers that pass Acid2 is Safari and Opera (weekly build). Konq and iCab only claim they pass the test but they don't. They fail to apply one of the styles required by the test:

html { ... overflow: hidden; /* hides scrollbars on viewport, see 11.1.1:3 */ ... }

Konq and iCab don't hide the scrollbar in the viewport. Therefore, they are very close but they don't pass it yet. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.31.113.57 (talk • contribs).

I tend to not agree, CSS2.1 section 11.1.1 says of overflow:hidden "This value indicates that the content is clipped and that no scrolling user interface should be provided to view the content outside the clipping region." (emphasis mine)
SHOULD NOT and MUST NOT have a very different meaning in a spec like this (see RFC 2119 referenced by the CSS spec). In fact, iCab and Konqueror MAY both pass the test, as long as the scrollbars are there on purpose :) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.188.84.69 (talk • contribs).
From RFC 2119: "SHOULD (...) there may exist valid reasons in particular circumstances to ignore a particular item, but the full implications must be understood and carefully weighed before choosing a different course." - one of the implications is that it won't pass Acid2 ;)
I've blogged here why iCab (and Konqueror) pass the Acid2 test despite showing scrollbars on the viewport. Although both browsers can hide the scrollbars now.
Please point out where the scrollbars are showing in the image at this page or in this image. It appears that Konq does pass the test. — Mperry 18:19, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
On the viewport —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.31.93.27 (talk • contribs)
This was fixed in Konqueror 3.5.2, as the article now mentions. (Konq showed the bars in 3.5.1) If you want to see for yourself, you can get 3.5.2 on a live CD, see [1]

[edit] Firefox 3.0 image

The image for the firefox 3 build seems wrong. The picture in the article appears to be the screen shot from the unused branch 1.6. Firefox 3 does properly render the acid 2 test. This site shows the 1.6 and 3.0 images: http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/acid/

Not entirely correct. The main Firefox 3 branch does render the Acid 2 test as shown in the article, but another branch (the reflow branch, as noted in your link, which will be merged with the main FF3 branch) renders the test perfectly. In fact, I'm running the latest build from that branch right now. :) --Guess Who 00:20, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Firefox 3.0 passing

Minefield passes the test the most current windows available build anyway Atomic1fire 06:08, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6642/2acid2az1.png

[edit] Firefox 3.0 Beta 2

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/5361/acid2od4.png That's what Firefox 3.0 Beta 2 renders on Vista x64. It's a fresh install with a new profile and no add-ons. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.31.249.88 (talk) 00:34, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

The Acid2 test is currently broken - no browser will appear to "pass" it currently. CobraA1 (talk) 16:19, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6642/2acid2az1.png
Firefox 3 beta2 is passing the test now (probably beta1 also did). Someone add it back. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.33.249.135 (talk) 17:34, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Its not actually passing the test there. The bottom of the smiley is shifted up. Compare it to the picture of a passed test.

[edit] Gecko's Compatability

Gecko's rendering of Acid2 is able to be substantiated, all builds are able to be reproduced by anyone with the proper buildtools and cvs, no build (except for ones with local patches), are closed from public consumption. The "not public build" is a misnomer. --Callek 03:12, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

An interesting point...though I think that's something worth mentioning in the "notes" section of its entry. Personally I still wouldn't consider it "public" until any average joe can simply download it, install it and see it for himself. Perhaps you can think of a better term for it, indicating that the build requires some work to run? --ADeveria 12:41, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
I think it should be changed to something like "source code is available but requires compiling". The word assembly is strictly wrong since firefox is compiled, not assembled. 218.103.137.41 14:50, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Firefox download link

In a previous version of this article, there was a download link to the Firefox build. I don't see a purpose for removing it, and I also don't know why was the link dubbed "questionable". And, even if the link is really "bad", why was the coloring and the "unofficially published build" text reverted? Thanks! --NetRolller 3D 16:16, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Firefox 3 passing?

Im using Firefox 3 alpha 1, Gran Paradiso with Gecko 1.9 alpha 1, but its not rendering properly. The mouth is off to the and theres a white line a the top of the head. I dont think firefox 3 passes acid2 yet.Superway25 04:16, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Alpha 1 (Gran Paradiso) doesn't pass. Only nightly builds (Minefield) do. The next public version will most probably pass it. - Sikon 10:51, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6642/2acid2az1.png

I thought Gran Paradiso was supposed to be better than Minefield, it came out later. Is minefield better?Superway25 19:36, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Gran Paradiso is the codename for Firefox 3.0 alpha 1, which was essentially a one-time snapshot of the trunk. Minefield is the codename for the trunk builds, which are essentially the bleeding edge of ongoing development. The reflow branch, which implements proper Acid2 support, was merged with the trunk after the release of the public alpha, therefore the trunk builds pass the test and the public alpha doesn't. - Sikon 07:10, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Alpha 5 does not pass Acid2, contrary to the article.

[edit] FF dev build acid2

havent got time to read everything, but i noticed that it says that "and development builds of Mozilla Firefox." under perfect acid2. To my knowledge the latest gran paradiso Firefox 3.0 Alpha 2 has a dislocated nose (a bit to the left) on the smiley. Does Dev builds mean cvn releases? If im missing the point, then send a mail to comradekingu@gmail.com

-kingu

See two comments up. --Thinboy00 @204, i.e. 03:53, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Firefox 3 Beta 2

Can somebody re-check Firefox 3 Beta 2 to see if Acid2 works? There was some confusion while the test was broken. CobraA1 (talk) 11:55, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gecko 1.9/Firefox 3 (as of Nov 5 2007)

Passes on my build (1.9a9pre: Gecko/2007110405 Minefield/3.0a9pre), though I know that constant work on the Trunk can and will break things like rendering every so often. I brought back a lot of the text regarding Gecko trunk builds, but have made the wording a bit more safe regarding the definitive status of any given trunk build working.

The trunk builds do merit a mention, as there are builds now that do pass Acid2. Please consider this before systematically removing snips of the timeline or other areas of the article. Mike Tigas 10:40, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6642/2acid2az1.png

[edit] Firefox 3 Beta 2 passing the test ?

I just visited http://www.webstandards.org/files/acid2/test.html#top and I see a scrollbar instead of the eyes of the face. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.33.249.135 (talk) 23:52, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm removing the claim that firefox 3 beta 2 passes it, becouse it's not true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lyml (talk • contribs) 00:25, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

all browser fail it right now the page code has been edited —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.151.199.107 (talk) 00:42, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Opera

I just downloaded Opera 9 and it fails the Acid2 test. The smiley is the right shape but yellow rows 2-4 are red! Does anyone know why? Also when I zoom in and out the smiley breaks up into little bits even when it goes back to 100% :( The whole browser seems to be a lot stabler and slower. On a brighter note, Wikipedia pages are rendered a lot faster, but this never really mattered since the server response time is much slower. 218.103.137.41 14:50, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Do you have the View>Fit to Width" option on, perhaps? There may also be other settings that can cause it to render incorrectly, but if all is correct Opera 9 will pass it. Zooming in and out can indeed mess it up, but that's irrelevant to the actual test. --ADeveria 15:16, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
See the Acid2#Passing conditions section I've just added. It should explain things. --X-Man 03:40, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Haha, is the Opera 9 Beta easter egg real? Sounds like someone got a bit cocky. :D 82.109.166.178 03:10, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Opera Software's involvement

From the opening sentence:

Acid2 is a test case designed by the Web Standards Project, with assistance from employees of Opera Software

The citation gioven was this CNET article written by Hakon Wium Lie, chief technology officer of Opera Software. Unfortunately that link makes no references to Opera's involvement, it simply states:

"To ensure that IE 7 does not become another failed promise, the Web community will issue a challenge to Microsoft."

I added the bold to make my point clearer. He is not saying Opera Software is doing this, he is saying the web community as a whole are creating Acid2. This includes people from Opera Software, Mozilla, Apple, etc. The statement "with assistance from employees from Opera Software" implies that they were the only ones, which is incorrect. --Lethargy 20:14, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I concur. —Nightstallion (?) 13:19, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Opera's involvement is mentioned on the acid2 test page.

Acid2 is a year old now, and recent beta builds of Opera 9 now support the test. Håkon Wium Lie, CTO of Opera Software and one of the contributing authors to the Acid2 test, says: “Some people thought Acid2 would be easy for Opera since we were involved in shaping the test. Not so. Acid2 rightfully exposed many bugs in Opera and we have squashed them, one by one.”

I believe the article should reflect this. --phocks 05:03, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

IIRC one of the developers at mozilla was also a "contributing author", and probably people from several other companies. I'm not sure if it makes sense to list each individual who contributed, as we may not have the space and it might not contribute much to the article. If we only list a few of the people, it may be POV because it sounds as if they were the only people (or companies) who supported it. --Lethargy 00:07, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Opera 9.25 for windows does not pass.

Take a look for yourself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nacarlson (talk • contribs) 02:50, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

The test is currently broken. CobraA1 (talk) 11:54, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the update. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nacarlson (talk • contribs) 09:34, 26 December 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Layout

Something is wrong with the layout. I only see the pictures on the right, and hten the text begins at the bottom of the pictures.

The freddinator (talk) 21:50, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Problem solved. The freddinator (talk) 23:55, 10 December 2007 (UTC)