Talk:Achaemenes

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.
Biography Portal
Stub This article has been rated as Stub-Class on the project's quality scale. [FAQ]
This article is supported by the Royalty and nobility work group.

oddly speculated that Achaemenes was the son of the Greek hero Perseus and a grandson of Zeus
Should "grandson" be "granddaughter"? Anthony Appleyard 05:51, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I don't understand. Achaemenes was a man. Fishal 03:32, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Dates and numbers in this article

Wikipedia policy is clear on the use of Eras in articles:

Both the BCE/CE era names and the BC/AD era names are acceptable, but be consistent within an article. Normally you should use plain numbers for years in the Common Era, but when events span the start of the Common Era, use AD or CE for the date at the end of the range (note that AD precedes the date and CE follows it). For example, 1 BC–AD 1 or 1 BCE–1 CE.

It is up to the author(s) of an article to determine the dating system to be used and there must be consistency with each article. In this case, for a non-Christian topic in a non-Christian region of the world, BCE/CE would seem to make the most sense. Sunray 19:42, 2005 May 22 (UTC)

I see someone has reverted back to BC/AD for dates. Perhaps we could take a poll of authors of this article to see which is the preferred dating system for eras. Sunray 06:52, 2005 May 23 (UTC)

++ Polls truly matter not; mob rules? Born and raised in America, I find it odd how those in the Western hemisphere honestly feel WE (Greek, Roman, etc.) was the start of all civilization and how the AD/BC timescale 'should' be used, as that falls in favor to the Christian Western side, because this matter to Muslims, Chinese, Hindus who have a totally different timescale.

  • Sunray, a poll has been taken at Neutral point of view/BCE-CE Debate/Votes. At last count, the vote was 92 votes to 75, with the majority OPPOSING Srubenstein's policy change proposal. Rubenstein has UTTERLY FAILED to acheive a consensus for his proposed policy change, and now it seems the supporters of the failed proposal are unilaterally proclaiming victory and considering it to be enacted anyway. This is most evident on the Iran pages. Since official wiki policy states that both are equally acceptable and not to go making changes like this from the original form when there is any opposition, it seems you are in violation and the ones here who are making trouble. If both are "equally acceptable" and I can unilaterally make such a change, it would be equally acceptable for me to invade articles about archaeology or the Talmud and impose BC / AD on precisely the same grounds. This policy about officially favoring one or the other under certain circumstances has LOST; face it and stop ramrodding the LOSER policy down our throats as if it actually had anything close to a consensus. This is a perfect example of the process whereby a minority cabal can fraudulently enforce their own POV on everyone else in North American "academia", but if wikipedia is going to work that way, I will stop contributing my edits and will no longer be able to take the whole project seriously at all.

If there is an inscription, as a valid historical source, that says that Assyrian king repelled an attack led by Achaemenes, then there can be no doubt that there WAS a living person by that name, living presumably round 700 BC. Only question seems to be whether that person was an ancesstor of Teispes and later Persian rulers, or not. KIKA

As graffiti on a wall proclaims one to be the 'messiah', how does that, if it survives hundreds or thousands of years, becomes a 'valid historical source'? I can see how with a story written in stone there IS doubt to the matter. Hypothetically speaking, if I carved in rock that in "1932 (well before I lived) I beat up KIKA," and later uncoverd in the year 3078, people should interpret that as fact according to your logic. There are much more questions than who was an heir. Please save me the hassle of rebutting. Thank you.

You didn't read well. I wrote: "If there is an inscription, as a VALID historical source (it was partially my mistake since I didn't emphasize it) that says etc". So, you are now challenging the iscription and changing the subject. I said: "If it is valid", meaning that "if it is truthfull and honest" and if it could be trusted by historians. I agree about your remark on graffiti case, but, even after thousands of years, your rock and the inscription you carved into it would be subject of historian's test. Besides, I read the article in Britanica about Achemenes, and it chose to believe the inscription. Where's the problem then? KIKA

[edit] BC/AD

Guys, why not simply use BC/AC (Before /After) and sove the problem! Kiumars 11:23, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is there anything to support these rumors and doubts!

Due to the lack of historical sources on Achaemenes, his rule and existence are sometimes doubted. He may have been legendary. Darius I the Great may even have invented him so as to legitimize his rule. Since Darius was not an heir to the previous Shah, Cyrus the Great), it is contended that Darius invented an earlier ancestor shared by Cyrus and himself. In this way he was able to claim royal ancestry.

Can you add links to references to support the claims please. Britanica seems to think he was real! http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9003515 Also, The guys who are working on Teispes of Anshan think he is the son of Achaemenes! How could he have a son if he was not real? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teispes
What a mess! Kiumars 11:23, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Teispes is never mentioned as "a son of Achaemenes" in old Persian inscriptions, but as "an Achaemenid". This is the way he has been named in both the Cyrus cylinder and Darius I's Behistun inscription. Refering to Teispes as the son of Achaemenes seems to be a Greek invention. mirfakhr

[edit] NPOV cleanup

This article is part of the NPOV backlog. Since the NPOV tag has been placed without any discussion here, and the text appears to be uncontroversal, and there seems to be no discussion suggesting disagreement, the tag is removed. If you disagree with this, please re-tag the article with {{NPOV}} and post to Talk. -- Steve Hart 19:41, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Tag will be re-added as the dates doesn't concorde with his son's dates by 2000 years ... that's a lot. Lincher 12:45, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
ok, but let me ask: this sounds more like a factual issue, what does it have to do with NPOV policy? -- Steve Hart 21:55, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
In fact the date is confusing, but on the second look it became be apparent that it matches the times of his son. The sentence tells that he lived 2700 years ago. That means 700 BC. Teispes (the son of Achaemenes) was living: 675-640 BC. So it is even not the matter of factual accuracy. It is problem of formulation .--Reo ON | +++ 19:50, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Revisiting

I agree with Steve Hart; this is an issue of accuracy, not of neutrality. I'm changing the tag and adding a citation needed to some of the statements. Fishal 21:28, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I also want to add that I added a lot to this article back when citation standards were much more lax; I know right where I can find the secondary sources that I used and will cite them as soon as I can (realistically, probably not for a couple of months). Those books were the source of the statement, "Achaemenes was most likely a 7th century BC warrior-chieftain... An Assyrian inscription from the time of King Sennacherib mentions that the Assyrian king repelled a raid by the Parsu, who may have been led by Achaemenes." This is also where much of the Greek mythological material came from. Fishal 21:33, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comment

Ok wtf, biranica is correct there are no doubts why are you putting messed up info on this...

[edit]  ??????

in some of the text translated in old persian script shows only several Question marks on my computer. what is the required font needed to view it and how is it acquired? i believe there must be some other readers couldnt see them.
Xmlv (talk) 20:30, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

I have found the Aegean font at http://www.wazu.jp/gallery/Fonts_OldPersianC.html to work well for displaying old Persian cuneiform. --Wikiacc () 00:46, 24 May 2008 (UTC)