Talk:Abus Gun

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[edit] Revert?

Why is the Age of Empires 3 game such a large part of this article? It was all added by only one user (see edit history), and the user removed several other things, but because it has been so long since the last edit I do not want to revert without a second opinion. Should this article be reverted to [[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Abus_Gun&oldid=112525338|the last version of the article not edited by User: DGG? --Twipie I do not know why; it is amystery to me. I do not know. —ÅñôñÿMôús Dîššíd3nt 07:14, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

The relevance of the Age of Empires 3 info is trivial. It should be abbreviated and appear later in the article, if at all N1cholson (talk) 09:02, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] References

help desperately needed cant seem to master multiple referances please help.

[edit] Comments

  • This is not really written in standard English. It needs a lot of work.
  • I cannot understand it very well, probably because of the English
  • Cannons have been a part of military warfare for centuries. For example, ships and even armored ships of the Koreans etc extend back very far in history. Cannons pulled by horses were used for centuries as well. If you mean small cannons that were portable by one or two men, that is a bit different. The comparisons with other howitzers and cannons and how this technology was adopted by others is not described. All in all, it is sort of frustrating to read because it says so little, the English is hard to read, and it makes claims that make no sense.
  • If the Ottomans were the first to deploy artillery, where are the dates? Where are the dates of the other Europeans to use them? What about nonEuropeans?
  • Where are the links to other material on Wikipedia that is relevant?
  • I have no idea what a "bombard" is. Is it English? Archaic? A specialized term?
  • What is a cap?
  • ockles? This is just hard to read.
  • A video game is one of your references for this piece of history? NOT really a good reference. Sorry.

I am afraid the list of problems with this article are probably longer than the article itself. --Filll 20:42, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Abus Gun

Dear Filll, I mean no disrespect to you, but I was wondering what you meant when you stated that my article Abus Gun was hard to read. I do not find this myself, and no-one has commented on it other than you. I believe I DID state alot about the weapon. I talked about when it was used (napoleonic era), how it preceded more common and more recognisable forms of artillery (you said the article stated that it was the first), the versatility of the weapon, even the weight of its projectiles. And about the put down about the game, Age of Empires is famed for it's historical background to its campaigns in-game, and it's history section is known to be accurate. (have you even played the game?) I was just wonderingabout these things, and was hoping you could explain yourself further. Yours truly, Anonymous Dissident

The English is stilted and a bit difficult. Your article is new and somewhat obscure and not many people have read it yet. I do not put down the game. I just do not think it is a scholarly source. I do not want to get involved in some huge discussion about this. You will have to recruit some assistance from other places to help with your articles. Perhaps you can ask at the Village Pump.--Filll 16:30, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I play Age of Empires 3 too, and I came here hoping to find some new information on this interesting artillery piece, but almost all info is taken from either the ingame info or designers' Q&A from the AoE3 homepage. I think for this article to have any right to exist we'll need information from other sources.

Well, if AO3 is a reliable source, why should it not be included, just because you want to find more. We don't have to tear an article down just because it doesn't have enough information! That is working backwards! Anonymous Dissident 05:30, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Surely we can do better than this. This might mean going to a library and consulting an encyclopedia of military weapons or something. I was not able to easily find any other references online, but that does not mean they are not there. Does the name have anything to do with the town in Romania?--Filll 15:07, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I actually advocate removing this article until a better source has been found. About 50% of this article is inaccurate or downright nonsense, all based upon a game. 137.224.222.27 17:21, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I am afraid I have to concur. I looked for more material on the internet but little existed. The primary editor has not shown any interest in fleshing this out at all. --Filll 05:00, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
You say I am not interested, but you do not consider the real world. i have simply been away and have not had access to a computer.

I am interested, and if you hafve ideas for improvement let me know, or do it yourself. I am not the only capable wikipedian here. If you do have the resources the complete and/or fix this article (which I feel isnt really broken anyway) then please contribute instead of pointing fingers and waiting for others to do something. Thanks Anonymous Dissident 05:26, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] to be clarified

It needs to be clarified that this was a real-world weapon, not just one in a game. almost all AofE weapons are close simulations of actual weapons, which is one of the reason the games can come so close to real history. The sources will not be on line. I'll see what I can do, but it will take a while.DGG 05:40, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm interested to see if anyone can find something better than the one online source; I've read several military encyclopedias and I didn't find anything on this weapon. It might be a so-called ultra-light cannon or a swivelcannon of the type that was commonly fixed upon ships, wagons or fortifications in the Renaissance. I asked the lead designer of AoE3 what it was, and he replied it was a sort of giant musket that fired a musket ball about 5 times the regular weight. No info on time period, tactics in the field or anything else.--137.224.222.27 20:28, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

This article will be better, just wait. And in regards to the game - give it a chance if you please! It is not fantasy! It is based 95% on truth! Anonymous Dissident 05:26, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] fixing

  1. I have now separated the article into the two parts for the real-life Ottoman weapon, and the weapon as used in Age of Empires. Some of the information still needs to be moved into the right section.
  2. I have found the correct reference for a brief on-line magazine article on military aspects of Ottoman history.
  3. I have clarified the correct reference is the available online fame guide for the description of the (true) historical background.
  4. I have clarified the correct reference in the available online game guide for the description of the gun as used in the game.
  5. Next: some encyclopedias
  6. Then: some books & articles, online or printed.

Where I need help, is could someone please check the game guide for the page reference to the gun, and perhaps copy the paragraph here. An excerpt such as this is fair use. DGG 20:19, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Hey sorry for late reply. I know one thing. the term ockles and the idea of caps is not implememented in the game.

The game merely mentions it's history in the ottoman army, and then its usage in the game. It says nothing more on the design of the weapon that we have not already got. Unfortunately I cannot find the game, but if someone else could... thanks anyway for your help. Anonymous Dissident 22:05, 9 March 2007 (UTC)