Talk:Abundant Life Church

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Contents 1 Edits & criticisms 1.1 Rock Club 1.2 Criticisms 2 Notability 3 Unclear section

[edit] Edits & criticisms

User:Allie cabab, your edits were deleted because they were all POV and had no references. Personally, I don't doubt what you said was true, as I have had a lot of personal experience of this kind of charismatic church. However, in an encyclopedic article, those kinds of claims need to be substantiated with references to, eg, books, research, newspaper reports etc. David L Rattigan 21:54, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Just for future reference, and for anyone else who thinks they might be able to source some of these criticisms, here is a copy of the edit:

[edit] Rock Club

The church also runs clubs at local schools, these are called rock club, however they do not tell people straight away that they are a religion and so people go along and play on the game consoles that they provide and listen to the music and they have a good time. It is good for some people because they feel like they are involved and the people who run the club make people who otherwise may not have many friends feel like they have freinds. It is only after people have been coming to the clubs for a few weeks that they invite them to the abundant life centre and if you read the leaflets carefully you can work out that it is a religion if you are aware of them.

[edit] Criticisms

Some people think that the Abundant life church employ some un-ethical recruiting techniques, they do not tell people straight away what they are about. They put on presentations in schools assemblies calling themselves rock club and tell students that they are a charity that helps young people get the most out of their lives and tells them to come along to the abundant life centre in Bradford for concerts and fun. They do not mention at all that they are a religion. In some peoples view they should be more open about what they stand for before they get people socially dependant on being involved with the group before they tell them that it is a religion. This is very similar to the way that cults recrute making people dependant on them before they get them to do what they want.

I beleive it should be possible with appropriate reference to secondary sources such as Andrew Walker's Restoring the Kingdom to raise the criticisms. It would have to be done carefully with both sides of the story presented. This might also include a discussion on heavy shepherding. This type of criticism may not be normally be relevant but ALC is more than just another big church, it is historically significant being seen as the key founding church in the Restoration/ New Church movement. I've started to enter some "historical data" but its very sketchy and would be great if others could add to it. (Be Dave 08:45, 24 March 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Notability

I have placed a Notability tag on this article. I can find no significant external published references to this church - it appears not to qualify for inclusion here. If you have references that prove otherwise, please incorporate them within the body of the article. If not, I will suggest it be considered for deletion. 86.144.79.30 07:04, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

The church has been featured in multiple mainstream media sources, including being the subject of a Mail on Sunday "Review" article (four pages) and being included in a BBC One programme, "Jesus Who?". I will incorporate these references as soon as I can. --3M163//Complete Geek 09:58, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Seemmy comments above referring to Andrew Walker's restoring the Kingdom. ALC is certainly notable due to its part in the House Church movement -see above. I am surprised to see a suggestion for this article's removal supporters and opponnents of the House Church Movement alike will assure you of its significance. (Be Dave 12:14, 18 April 2007 (UTC))

Could someone with immediate access to Walker's book include and to the magazine articles (Christianity etc) add them in ta (Be Dave 20:54, 28 April 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Unclear section

While re-writing to explain notability and add sources, I've removed part of the following passage:

The church was formerly a part of Covenant Ministries, but it withdrew from the organisation in 1997. They believed the church to be of a comfortable and "safe" form of Christianity, and made changes that they argued would lead to a more radical, 21st-century-style church.

I am unclear who the "they" are - is it Covenant, Abundant Life, other people in Bradford..? I have no particular objection to including this statement if someone who knows more about the subject can clarify. —Preceding unsigned comment added by CJPargeter (talk • contribs) 08:25, 11 September 2007 (UTC)