Talk:Abu Faraj al-Libbi
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[edit] How important is AFAL?
It seems clear that not everyone agrees: http://www.newshounds.us/2005/05/09/once_again_we_prove_roger_ailes_divorced_from_reality_about_fox_news_fairness_and_balance.php even though the US establishment and their chums (e.g. the Pakistani police force) are sticking to the story that he is important. Mr. Jones 07:00, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
Any author of this stub care to defend the allegation that al-Libbi is actually a big shot Qaeda player? I have no reference earlier that late December, 2004, although given the different transliterations of Arabic names into English, it could be that I have not properly adjusted search strings. Still it seems rather odd, and extremely Orwellian that a man uncited in news accounts until 5 1/2 months ago is El Qaeda Numero tres, as is being reported in almost all major media, although I did notice that claim was left from the stub.
Since I'm being critical, I'll offer something in return:
2004.12.20, AFP, Pak arrests Al-Qaeda aide, thwart major attack
It may be a trojan horse though, since it reports a different sum for al-Libby's US reward:
- "Pakistan has posted a reward of 20 million rupees for the arrest of al-Libbi for masterminding two attacks on Musharraf's motorcade last December 14 and 25. The United States has also offered a five-million-dollar reward on his arrest."
The "Mastermind" tag often thrown as and adjective of al-Libby appears to be a great deal of spin also, since his cited great accomplishments are two failed assasination attempts upon Pervez Musharraf, one utterly lame, and the other, a radio controlled bomb on a bridge that went after Musharraf's motorcade, but was detonated after his car had passed, that was widely viewed in Pakistan as evidence that the Dictator receives high-end CIA protection, and they have devices that can defeat radio contolled IED's.
If I find anything else pertinent, and publicly linkable, I'll post it here, eventhough I have great doubts that anything whatsoever will be done expressing what i consider to be valid doubts as to the veracity of the Bush Admin over the number three claim.
- Richard Clarke identifies him as al-Qaeda's director of operations and the replacement of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed in August 2004 according to this link. Pakistan also says they consider him al-Qaeda's #3 in that story, and the picture makes it clear who they are talking about. Whether or not they were correct about the role he played, claims about his status in the organization were being made long before he was captured. My advice to you: leave out the al-Libbi when you search for his name, for the same reason you're likely to find more on Saddam Hussein if you leave off the al-Tikriti. --68.43.122.174 19:37, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
- Here's another link.
- Here's what I get from the Sunday Times article, other current news reports, and the links above.
- 1. It was reported in August 2004 by Pakistani intelligence that Abu Faraj Farj was the new "operational chief" of al-Qaeda.
- 2. Abu Faraj Farj is also known as Abu Faraj al-Libbi.
- 3. Pakistani intelligence in August 2004 released a photograph of this person (the old one in our article).
- 4. The man just arrested in Pakistan is believed by Pakistani authorities to be this person.
- 5. Some in the European intelligence community doubt that this person was actually important in al-Qaeda operations.
- Here's another link.
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- The question of Americans confusing this guy with Anas al-Liby seems to be a separate issue from his importance, since the Pakistani government seems to have been thinking of Abu Faraj all along, and to have considered him an important figure in al-Qaeda. Whether or not Abu Faraj was high-level is in dispute, but that's another question. The Pakistanis were not thinking on May 2 that they had captured Anas al-Liby. --Cam 23:08, May 8, 2005 (UTC)
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- I think that's an accurate assessment of the facts as they stand, and your reworking of the article addresses my concerns listed here and below. Thanks a lot. The Wikipedia main page still has misleading information, but I don't know how to do anything about that. --68.43.122.174 00:42, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
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[edit] that was quick...Times (UK) article link
Chris Johnston, Villagers tell different tale of al-Libbi's capture, Times Online, and Associated Press, May 05, 2005
[edit] al-Zawahiri captured?
This appears in the third paragraph of this article: "US and Pakistani officials said he was third in command after Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri and was al-Qaeda's operational chief after the capture of the latter."
But going to "the latter"'s (being al-Zawahiri) page shows no indication that he has, in fact, been captured. And a quick check on Google similarly fails to reveal any information regarding the alleged capture. So what gives with this article claiming he has been captured already? SS451 22:37, May 7, 2005 (UTC)
- The prior known operational chief was Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, who was indeed captured. That is who it is alleged al-Libbi replaced. Seems like a grammatical mistake on the part of whoever wrote that sentence in Wikipedia, as the sentence paradoxically says that al-Libbi was third in command behind al-Zawahiri in addition to replacing him. --68.43.122.174 19:43, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Jumping the gun?
This article, which is now on Wikipedia's main page, alleges that the man captured is actually a mid-level al-Qaeda operative, rather than a top catch. This seems to be completely based on one story from today's Sunday Times, which bases the story on the opinions of "European intelligence experts". However, US and Pakistani officials, who actually have custody of the man, continue to allege he was a key member of al-Qaeda, and this story from August 14, 2004 alleges that a major manhunt was underway for Abu Faraj, and that he was in fact the replacement of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. Photos released at that time are of the man who was captured this past week. I think it seems too early to conclude that this was in fact a case of mistaken identity, and report so as fact on the front page of Wikipedia. I think it makes more sense to report both claims at this point, until further investigative reporting comes out.
Furthermore, the news on the front page [The al-Qaeda suspect captured in Pakistan on May 2 and thought to be al-Qaeda third-in-command Anas Al-Liby turns out to be Abu Faraj al-Libbi, a mid-level member in the organization. Officials describe the mistake as a case of "mistaken identity".] is blatantly inaccurate: Anas Al-Liby has never been called al-Qaeda's third-in-command, and no "official" has yet said this is a case of mistaken identity. You can't even find support for those things in the Sunday Times article.--68.43.122.174 20:00, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
[edit] al-Libbi's Face
Does anybody know what caused the reddish marks that can be seen on the sides of al-Libbi's face in this photo? Are these burns? Scrapes? Birthmarks? Chrissnell 07:00, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
- A disease called vitiligo a.k.a. leucoderma. LDH 13:33, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] rants
I removed some off-topic ranting from the discussion page here... if you want to write BUSH = HITLER or NO BLOOD FOR OIL rants, do it on your blog or DemocraticUnderground or somewhere irrelevent like that, not in discussion pages of useful articles.
[edit] Updated
I added that he is now known to be in Gitmo, and took out the Human Rights Watch thing. I abbreviated the bit about the confusion with Anas al-Liby, which IMO is off topic and unnecessary now that the smoke has cleared. (ISI and CIA knew perfectly well which of the Libi's they were taking down.) I hope the new style of references is okay; I converted the article to it just because it's the type I know :)
Interesting that he had coded notes on his person, and he was on a motorcycle -- sounds like he might have been on his way to see bin Ladin!
LDH 03:44, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Merge Abu Laith al-Libi
They are not the same person so removing the mergeto template.(Hypnosadist) 21:46, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
