Talk:Absolute music

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[edit] Moved from Abstract Music to Absolute Music

I hope everyone is happy with this, more classical pages were linking to absolute music anyway. --Chinasaur 08:33, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

What is the difference between the two terms. Why is absolute preferable? It seems to me less clear, it seems like the expression "she's really pregnant". Hyacinth 04:46, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

There's good empirical evidence that "absolute" is preferable: the majority of music articles were linking to "absolute music" rather than "abstract music" even though "absolute" used to be the redirect.

To my mind, however, the main difference between the words is that "absolute music" is a definite, well-understood term in classical music, whereas "abstract music" could really have many other connotations outside of any established terminology. You could imagine saying "that music is really abstract" about a lot of different genres of music, whereas "that is a piece of absolute music" has a more specific meaning. An analogy would be calling free verse "unstructured verse" or the like; it technically describes the form well, but it allows other unintended meanings and there happens to be a more specific and recognizable term available.

In the context of new musicology and those sorts of PoMo arguments, "abstract music" seems to be used more, perhaps even to mean something slightly different. If that's the case, maybe that stuff could be moved to abstract music, but most of this article is focusing on the different between absolute and program music, for which "absolute" is surely more appropriate.

Not sure what you mean with the pregnancy thing. --Chinasaur 07:31, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

What does "absolute music" mean? What does "abstract music" mean? Hyacinth 07:35, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

[edit] From VfD:

From Cleanup: Abstract music - gobbledygook

  • This listing was moved from Cleanup by SimonP, but he currently has no opinion on whether it should be deleted.
  • delete. Lefty 15:08, 2004 Apr 24 (UTC)
  • Keep: appears to be a real, though minor, musical niche. I suspect that "abstract music" has been around for a long time, although I don't know enough about musical history to be sure. Wile E. Heresiarch 16:06, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)
(No vote) ????? I thought "abstract music" meant anything that wasn't program music, the latter being stuff like The Sorceror's Apprentice or Symphonie Fantastique or Pacific 231 or Scheherazade or "An Alpine Symphony" or "Grand Canyon Suite" in which the music is deliberately descriptive of a story line and you are supposed to be relating the sound you hear to marching broomsticks, or lustful longing, or steam locomotives, or Sinbad's ship on the sea, or rainstorms, or sunrises-mule braying-storm-and-sunset... sorry, got a little carried away there. Anyway isn't 99.5% of all classical music abstract? Dpbsmith 17:38, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC) Oooh, there's a List of Program Music and I just named four pieces that aren't on it, yet... gotta go, there's work to do! Dpbsmith 17:41, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Markalexander100 16:49, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep, perfectly valid concept that is meaningful to composers, performers, theorists and listeners. I for one think it should be at absolute music (which is currently a redirect to abstract music), but this one should be kept, either as an article or as a redirect to absolute music. Del arte 18:41, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep --Samuel J. Howard 09:08, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Robert Happelberg 20:16, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC)

what is some historical/cultural characteristics of absolute music?

[edit] Removed

I removed the following sentence:

"It is to be experienced purely as music."

As, though I'm not sure what "purely as music" means, it appears that any other form of enjoyment or consideration is unacceptable. Hyacinth 05:00, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)