Talk:Abraham Lincoln Brigade

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Jersey, The fact that many volunteer fighters came from other countries is important because it provides context for the Bridage: the American volunteers of the Brigade were not alone or in any way perculiar for being there--the fight against Spanish fascism was a cause joined by many idealistic youths from across the world. Orwell is a major writer who writes about the American volunteers and the Bridage in "Homage to Catalonia." I think that's quite relevant because it is a first-hand description of the int'l volunteers, including the Americans. Hemingway witnessed the war first hand and is a major American novelist. Although Hemingway's protagonist in "For Whom the Bell Tolls" is not depicted as part of the Brigade per se, he is an American volunteer whose decision to risk his life and to fight is described, very relevnt to the mondset of those in the Bridage. So it's relevant as a one liner with that clarification made in the article. I am giving you a chance to respond, if you wish. --NYCJosh 00:29, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Since you have not responded in some time, I will assume you agree with my thinking on these points and I will re-post. --NYCJosh 23:23, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

The international brigades are already in the see also section and the ALB's role in it is stated in the text, so it is not as if the context of the Brigade being a faction of an international movement is being left out. Also, with regard to the following comment: "Orwell is a major writer who writes about the American volunteers and the Bridage" having read Homage to Catalonia it is true that Orwell had some contact with American soldiers from the Abraham Lincoln Brigade but it was minor contact and Orwell mainly fought alongside the Independent Labour Party and the POUM i.e., Englishmen and Spaniards. There is no real reason to list Orwell up there except the fact that he is a notable figure associated with the Spanish Civil War. It will also confuse people into thinking that Orwell was directly associated with the Abraham Lincoln Brigade whilst the truth is that Orwell wasn't even associated directly with the International Brigades at all.--Jersey Devil 01:53, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Images 2 Proposed: Battalion not Brigade 3 Red-baiting? 4 Moe Fishman dies 5 Frank Murphy

[edit] Images

I have taken the liberty of removing the previous image, and have added a couple of others in its place. I do not believe that the previous image had any specific connection to the Abraham Lincoln Brigade; it is just a poster for the CNT.--Pharos 10:20, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, just because NYU used the image as a random illustration on a website, does not mean that the CNT poster has anything specifically to do with the Lincolns. I'm removing it again.--Pharos 22:20, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed: Battalion not Brigade

I'm proposing moving this to Lincoln Battalion with redirects from here; and Abraham Lincoln Battalion. It is seriously confusing calling it a brigade in the article heading, This implies it occupied the same position in the military hierarchy as XV International Brigade, XI International Brigade etc which of course it didn't. Obviously, it needs a section discussing the colloquial use of Abraham Lincoln Brigade but this oughtn't be the main article name.

Yeah, but that would exclude the George Washington Battalion and the John Brown Anti-Aircraft Battery. The term "Abraham Lincoln Brigade" despite being a military colloquialism, has very high currency, in the works of many writers on the subject, and is used officially in the veterans' publications and at the Abraham Lincoln Brigade Archives.--Pharos 19:35, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure it involves abandoning anything ... The way forward, perhaps is to (1) expand this article into a broader piece about Americans in the Spanish Civil War (which is the sub-text here anyway) and (2) have satellite articles on the specific military units (Lincoln Bn, Washington Bn, John Brown Bty etc), linking both to here and to articles on the larger military units of what they were a part. I have lots of material that is pertinant. Roger 05:41, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Red-baiting?

The following paragraph has been described as smelling like red-baiting:

"The reason why the Lincoln Battalion was magnified into a whole brigade" was because "publicists in the Communist Party back in New York" decided that the "American commitment to … Spain would be magically quadrupled in size by altering a single word." ^[1]

Eby doesn't mince his words but that doesn't make the content inaccurate. Marion (Robert Hale Merriman's wife) says much the same thing in American Commander in Spain: Robert Hale Merriman and the Abraham Lincoln Brigade (1986). Here are a couple of letters in the New York Review of Books, by Lillian Gates (wife of John Gates and William Herrick (former brigader) touching on the same subject. Incidentally, referring to the popular inflation from battalion to brigade doesn't mean that I buy into the whole Un-American Activities thing :)) Anyhow earlier edits of mine re-posted sans the "red-baiting" paragraph. Roger 08:53, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Moe Fishman dies

An list of remaining survivors? NYT obit of ALB vet.

[edit] Frank Murphy

Your insistence on your conclusion that the entry about the indictments of Abraham Lincoln brigade recruiters by Frank Murphy is unencyclopedic and ungrammatical is completely baffling. It also ignores an important encyclopedic (and documented) fact. I'll also put this on the Discussion page. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 10:13, 31 March 2008 (UTC) Stan

Well, let's look at what you added, shall we?

Franklin Roosevelt's Attorney General Frank Murphy indicted sixteen alleged communists and fellow travelers for recruiting for the brigade persons from Detroit.

I'm not saying that the facts you added are encyclopedic, merely the format: how it was written (badly) and where it was placed. It was something of a non sequitur where you put it, and the lowercase "communists" and the red-baiting phrase "fellow travelers" throw the entire thing into doubt. Besides which the whole thing is totally unreferenced. So yes, it's unencyclopedic. +ILike2BeAnonymous (talk) 17:53, 31 March 2008 (UTC)