Talk:Aboriginal peoples in Quebec
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[edit] What is the purpose?
User JillandJack, whose recent behaviour on Wikipedia reminds me of our beloved hard banned Angelique/DW, keeps changing the first sentence of this article. He/She/They obviously wish[es] to make it really clear to the world that Quebec is a province of Canada. Fine, this is an undeniable fact and, since not everyone can identify all 10 provinces of Canada, it is good to give this precision to our readers.
But why was this first sentence: " The Native peoples of Quebec, a province of Canada, consist of 10 Amerindian nations and the Inuit nations number 71 415 people and account for approximately 1% of Quebec's population. " changed for: " Members of the Native peoples living in the Canadian province of Quebec consist of 10 Amerindian nations and the Inuit nations number 71 415 people and account for approximately 1% of Quebec's population. ".
What's the difference? In accord with Wikipedia's conventions, the title of an article should be bolded in the first sentence/paragraph. Why should it say Native peoples living in the Canadian province of Quebec?
-- Mathieugp 19:27, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- I believe JillandJack's edit was done to try to water down how we describe the autonomy of the First Nations. By removing the word "nations" and replacing it with "living in", it implies that the First Nations have no special status. JillandJack is confusing the words "nation" and "state", "state" would be incorrect as the First Nations are not independent from Canada, but "nation" is correct and is evident in all provinces across the country. Kurieeto 14:56, Mar 5, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Rename
I want to propose that this article be renamed to First Peoples of Quebec, for several reasons. First, the new name would align nicely with the established First Nations of Canada article. However more importantly, it would be a precursor to the re-establishment of a Category:First Peoples of Quebec. JillandJack depopulated Category:Native peoples of Quebec because they felt it redundant with the articles already in Category:Canadian First Nations. Category:Canadian First Nations has about 70 articles that are not categorized further, and I think it would help the learning of those not familar with the First Peoples of Canada if the Category:Canadian First Nations branched into Categories for the First Peoples of each province. I welcome all comments, if none are received in a week then I will proceed as discussed above. Kurieeto 14:56, Mar 5, 2005 (UTC)
- I have no objection to the move to First Peoples of Quebec. I personnally don't like the expression, but if that is the accepted term in English Canada, so be it. -- Mathieugp 06:07, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
-
- There is no common, accepted term in English Canada for describing the indigenous peoples of a province. I chose First Peoples of _ as above because the syntax conformed to the naming standard of the main article, First Nations of Canada. This also allowed for the inclusion of the Métis and Inuit by using 'First Peoples' rather than 'First Nations'. I'm completely open to other name suggestions, even keeping this one, but as my goal is to have a page like this for each Canadian province and territory, I want to first have consensus on what our naming convention will be. Kurieeto 12:47, Mar 6, 2005 (UTC)
-
-
- That's very rational thinking. I think we may be able to get along. :-) I suggest we try to find the most universally accepted term in the antropological/ethnological communities of English-Speaking Canada (if there is one) and use it. The dictionary seems to suggest that "aboriginal", "indigenous", "autochtonous", and "native" are all pretty much synonymous in English. I believe that indigenous and autochtonous are pretty rarely used in Canada, but aboriginal and native aren't. (It's pretty much the opposite in French, i.e., "autochtone" is the most common term, "aborigène" and "indigène" are never used for North American natives, and "natif" is not used at all. If it were, it would be an anglicism. ;-)
-
-
-
- I personnally think that "aboriginal" is better suited than "native" for it is more precise, and by using it, we would be avoiding potential arguments with people who would say stuff like "I was born here! I am native too!". What is your opinion? -- Mathieugp 02:31, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
-
-
-
-
- I found a great site on the federal government's Department of Indian and Northern Affairs website [1]. It defines the terms that we're discussing as established by the government, whose policies on naming I think we should try to emulate. I agree that "Aboriginal peoples" is the best term, because as per the government's definition it encompases the First Nations (Indians), Métis, and Inuit. Including the "s" in "peoples" is more important than I had first realized, they discuss the difference of having/not having the "s" on the website above. I think this consensus is great and we can begin to move forward with the provincial/territorial articles and categories. Kurieeto 22:30, Mar 8, 2005 (UTC)
-
-
-
-
-
- I also wanted to say that I agree with your note that by using "aboriginal" we'll avoid arguments about being a "native" Albertan, Ontarian, etc. Also, I just tried moving the Category:Native peoples of Quebec to Category:Aboriginal peoples of Quebec, but I received an error message. Are we unable to move categories? Thanks, Kurieeto 23:56, Mar 8, 2005 (UTC)
-
-
-
-
-
-
- I don't know about moving categories. I think (but I am not sure) that you are supposed to create a new category and then have the old one deleted by an admin. If you find out, let me know. -- Mathieugp 02:51, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
- Mathieu, I just thought of something, should we avoid using the possessive term "of"? Would the phrase "Aboriginal peoples in Quebec" be better than "Aboriginal peoples of Quebec"? Some may get offended at a wording that implies that a group of people "belong" to a province. After all, almost all aboriginal groups were located in their homelands long before any province or territory in question was created. I realized this after I made a requested for the old Category to be moved at Wikipedia:Requested moves. I'm going to remove the request until this is decided. I personally think that "in" is a preferable term because it is more neutral. Kurieeto 17:49, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
- I agree. -- Mathieugp 13:27, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
-
-
-
-
-
[edit] Language
Does anyone know the statistics for the languages spoken by Aboriginal people in Quebec? That is, how does the Aboriginal population split along Anglophone/Francophone lines, and how many primarily speak their traditional languages? Stevecudmore (talk) 18:58, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
