Talk:Abdullah of Saudi Arabia

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Contents

[edit] Open Letter

http://lettreouverteaukingabdullah.aceblog.fr

OPEN LETTER OF THE KING ABDULLAH AL SAOUD

[edit] Life and policies

He's heir to the throne of an important nation. Can we find some information about his life and policies, at least basics like date of birth? Vicki Rosenzweig

Saudi Arabia was an extremely poor nation back then so I seriously doubt there is a date available for CP Abdullah or any other Prince/Sheikh that was born around the 1920's. Even the year 1924 is conjecture. This is also why some of the senior members of the ruling families of the Middle East have no or little knowledge of English unlike the younger princes because their education is based on the Holy Quran and largely on the experience they acquired by following their fathers and brothers on various missions both back home and abroad.

  • In fact, Saudi Arabia wasn't a nation at all in the 1920s. Saudi Arabia was formed on September 23, 1932. And the Saudi house did not wield any appreciable amount of wealth or power until 1939, when they began exploiting their oil. Before 1932, Ibn Saud was just the Emir of Najd and Hasa.

King Abdullah was born in 1934. He is 72 years old. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.138.64.171 (talk • contribs) .

Thank you, I have fixed the year of birth. Mushroom 15:55, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

http://lettreouverteaukingabdullah.aceblog.fr

OPEN LETTER OF THE KING ABDULLAH AL SAOUD

[edit] King Abdullah?

Is he king now? Alphaboi867 07:20, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

According to Reuters. yes. [1] -- The Anome 09:48, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

In accordance with Wikipedia naming conventions for monarchs, I believe the artice should be "Abdullah of Saudi Arabia", similarly with his predecessor King Fahd. PatGallacher 10:23, 2005 August 1 (UTC) In Parade magazines annual list of the world's ten worst dictators, King Abdullah was ranked number seven behind China's Hu Jintao and ahead of Cuba's Fidel Castro. This is what Parade said about King Abdullah, "Although Abdullah did not become king until 2005, he has ruled Saudi Arabia since his half-brother, Fahd, suffered a stroke 10 years earlier. In Saudi Arabia, phone calls are recorded and mobile phones with cameras are banned. It is illegal for public employees “to engage in dialogue with local and foreign media.” By law, all Saudi citizens must be Muslims. According to Amnesty International, police in Saudi Arabia routinely use torture to extract “confessions.” Saudi women may not appear in public with a man who isn’t a relative, must cover their bodies and faces in public and may not drive. The strict suppression of women is not voluntary, and Saudi women who would like to live a freer life are not allowed to do so."

[edit] Quotation

Shortly after the September 11, 2001 terrorist attack on the United States, as criticism of Saudi Arabia mounted, Abdullah said "The vicious campaign being waged against the kingdom in the Western media is nothing but the manifestation of a deep-rooted hatred directed against the course of Islam. Commitment to Islam and the homeland is not up for debate." [2]

Could someone explain what this quote means and how it's relevant to terrorism?

  • Was the Crown Prince coming out for or against the terrorist attack of 9/11?
  • Is there a context which links criticism of Saudi Arabia with support of terrorism AND was Abdullah implying that terrorism is good by dismissing or rejecting this criticism?

This quote raises more questions than it answers. In fact, it doesn't answer anything at all that I can see. As such, it's unsuitable for the beginning of a section on such a hot-button topic as terrorism. Uncle Ed 14:18, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

Abdullah is not a proponent of terror. If anything -- though surely in these times anything we "know" mustn't be taken as fact -- he has been a positive influence, both on the Middle East and on the Islamic faith. His place in the Israeli conflict has been that of a compromiser, something otherwise sorely lacking. He turned against the Taliban every bit as quickly as the US did after 9-11. But for all that, he is still a Saud, which means he is rich and political, has a lot of people around him (some sane, others not) to make happy and has an awful lot to lose. I imagine that, despite the money and the cars and the influence, being in charge of a heap of conflict as large as Saudi Arabia is not an enviable position.

Thanks for the insight. I'm going to quote the news article a bit more fully here:

  1. One indication of his toughness came in reaction to recent US press reports critical of Saudi cooperation in the investigation of the Sept. 11 terror attacks in New York and Washington. Many of the hijackers were Saudi citizens, a fact the Saudi government is reluctant to acknowledge.
  2. "The vicious campaign being waged against the kingdom in the Western media is nothing but the manifestation of a deep-rooted hatred directed against the course of Islam," Abdullah said. "Commitment to Islam and the homeland is not up for debate."

I think this provides a bit more context, but I'm still not sure how (or even whether) this expresses his attitude towards terrorism. It seems much more about his defense of his country's reputation than anything else. Uncle Ed 15:33, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

Has he ever made any statement on waterboarding?

[3] Os Cangaceiros (Yippie!) 15:44, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Philanthropy

Is establishing libraries philanthropy, or is it something else?

ttogreh 01 Aug 2005

The article on Andrew Carnegie seems to treat it as such. siafu 00:54, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
I don't like the labelling of and absolute monarch as a philanthropist. The section on the twins can stay but I find it wrong to put philanthropy in the see also box, so I'm going to delete it. --Horses In The Sky 15:37, 17 April 2006 (UTC)


I don't think it's all that apropriate either, especially considering the lack of detail. One could write a whole article on the philanthropy of Andrew Carnegie, or even Kim Jong-il for that matter(if opening a library makes one a philanthropist.) All that is listed is a standard action of a statesman and a single generous act.
I'm also concerned about the statement
"He liberally funds Islamic education around the globe which, apart from spreading Islam, has helped remove misconceptions about the faith."
Several issues I have;
1) using "liberally" to describe the funding of schools teaching relatively conservative material, even by islamic standards, might be somewhat misleading. (although technically correct)
2) much of this Islamic education is in areas already considered "Islamic." Many of this education is simply educating non-saudi muslims on Wahabism
3) How has this removed misconceptions? I would think the average muslim would be the first to point out there are more misconceptions about Islam than ever before, mainly based on recent events (read as terrorism) and western ignorance.
4) Those might even be minor details of how misleading the statement in question could be when compared to the following which casts light on the content of the "education"....
October 30, 2007, an article by the Guardian:
"The controversial state visit of King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia prompted new criticism today over his regime's alleged role in distributing hate literature in British mosques. The Policy Exchange thinktank found extremist literature in a quarter of the 100 mosques and Islamic institutions it visited, including London Central Mosque in Regent's Park, which is funded by Saudi Arabia. Some of the literature advocated violent jihad, murdering gay people and stoning adulterers, its researchers found."
Indeed, he "liberally funds Islamic education around the globe". --Euanthes 13:02, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Current event?

It's been a week since his coronation. I think that it no longer warrants as a current event.--ttogreh 05:51, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

Since I have not gotten a comment in a couple of days, I would assume that this page has fallen off the radr. I am pulling the current event tag.

[edit] His royal majesty

royal title re-added. I personally am not too fond of HRM King Abdullah as a person, but his royal title should be stated, just as it is stated that elton john is a knight. --Ccosta 00:08, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] His Royal Highness

King Abdullah frowns upon using this term to describe him, and is known to punish his retainers who continued to use this term even after he issued a royal decree never to use this term again, only to use the "custodian of the two holy mosques" to describe him. It is now illegal in Saudi Arabia to use the term HRM to describe the King officially.

Source? --Horses In The Sky 13:14, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Terrorist attacks?

The article states that "Since 2003-05-12, Saudi Arabia has faced several serious terrorist attacks. King Abdullah vowed to crack down on the insurgency and to fight terrorist ideologies within the country."

Does anyone have any more specifics on these attacks and/or insurgency (who perpetrated them and why, what are the specifics of how he "cracked down", etc.) I looked in the Saudi Arabia article but the only thing mentioned was that they were against workers and happened in 2003 and 2004. Is this an anti-monarchy movement? A source would be nice as well. CSharpMinor 00:18, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

UPDATE. Somewhat answered my own question. I had missed the link to Insurgency in Saudi Arabia. I updated the article with some of this information. Additions / modifications would still be welcome, of course. We're still pretty lacking in citations too. --CSharpMinor 01:23, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moderate lifestyle?

The article says that he has a moderate lifestyle. Yet Abdullah has over 30 children which is more than Fahd. He may be a decent man bt to say that is lifestyle is moderate is stretching things a little. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.3.70.208 (talk) 13:27, 12 January 2007 (UTC).

Agreed. There's nothing specific nor sourced - I don't see any value in this section so I'm just going to go ahead and delete it wholesale. 220.240.117.113 09:59, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Governance and foreign policy

What is the meaning of this odd statement:

Abdullah also serves as Prime Minister and Commander of the Saudi National Guard.

In a constitutional monarchy, the prime minister is the 'first minister' of the monarch, i.e., he is _nominally_ appointed by, and serves at the pleasure of, the king. Likewise in a parliamentary democracy, where the prime minister is appointed by the head of state. But Abdullah _is_ the monarch / head of state. How does he 'serve' as first minister to himself?!? —Preceding unsigned comment added by HenryLarsen (talk • contribs) 04:36, 9 October 2007 (UTC)


The section on Governance and foreign policy says,

He liberally funds Islamic education around the globe which, apart from spreading Islam, has helped remove misconceptions about the faith... A liberal and progressive ruler, he continued most of the reform policies that he initiated as Crown Prince.

I think the function of Saudi-funded madrassas is at least open to dispute, and I'm not sure how one can flatly describe him as a "liberal and progressive ruler". (Do "liberal and progressive rulers" usually enforce a death penalty for religious apostacy?) Regardless, this doesn't seem to conform to NPOV to me. -- Narsil 22:39, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Arnaud de Borchgrave must have had a bad day...

This story (referenced in the article) by Borchgrave is simply not reliable. Borchgrave refers to the mother of the Sudairi Seven as "Al-Fadha bint Asi al-Shuraim", this is clearly wrong, Al-Fadha was a Rashidi, Ibn Sauds wife nr 8, and the mother of King Abdullah.

The mother of the Sudairi Seven was Hassa bint Ahmad al-Sudairi (Ibn Sauds wife nr 6).

I am therefore removing the ref. to beeing "his favorite wife". Regards, Huldra 16:59, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Abu Mutib

King Abdullah's eldest living son is Khalid, not Mutib. The king is known as "Abu Mutib" because he had another son by that name who died as a child. The living Mutib was named after him after his death of course. I cannot give you a source, but I know this for a fact, and therefore I changed the order of his sons. Najdazy.

[edit] Offspring

This is not way to refer to living, breathing human beings. They are not animals, they have dignity and deserve respect as the 'children' of Abdullah.

[edit] Double standard on sex life

If any other head of state had 4 wives simultaneously, then there would be an article for each wife or some mention in the main article. Here there isn't any mention of Abdallah bin Abdul-Aziz's wives. What I added was taken out and dubbed "vandalism".--71.105.22.63 04:24, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Religion

I removed the following uncited weasel words "He is viewed as a liberal and progressive ruler in a strongly Islamic country." I couldn't find any reliable sources for this. Indeed I replaced it with a quote from this mornings independent on the position of women in the country which does not make him sound particularly "liberal" or "progressive". 132.199.103.77 12:46, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

That was me. I guess my log in session had expired! Thehalfone 12:49, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

  • User 78.89.14.78 removed the part of the quote about "uniformed thugs", which I think is fair enough. I have inserted an ellipsis to indicate that part of the quote is missing and corrected the grammar. Thehalfone 08:09, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Music played when visiting Queen Elisabeth II

I was watching the 7 pm Channel 4 news (UK) today (30 Oct 07). As Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah arrived at Buckingham Palace, the 1st Battalion Welsh Guards played The Imperial March (Darth Vader's Theme). I speculate that this was an in-joke, King Abdullah of Jordan is an avid Star Trek fan. Todays Channel 4 News, including that video clip, can be viewed again online tomorrow.[4] --Diamonddavej 19:50, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Horribly one-sided bio of an autocratic dictator

Where is the criticism section? How can we talk about his 'philanothropy' without talking about the people publicly mutilated and executed under his rule? Other national leaders are not spared criticism in Wikipedia, why this man? I am going to put together a basic criticism section, using some of the British press reaction to his recent visit to the UK as a starting point. I'm sure there will be plenty more to draw on after that. Damburger 18:16, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

This is still a one sided article someone is favoring him and trying to make him look good in fact I have done research to add and he is actually close to being a despot (he's a dictator) someone is trying to make him look better than he really is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yroubros (talk • contribs) 22:39, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Relationship with the United States

According to this section, he last visited the US in 2000, but in the same section there is a picture of him with George W. Bush in Crawford. What gives? Primium mobile (talk) 14:09, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] image for king abdullah

i think you should put tjhis image for king abdullah

http://www.kuwaittimes.net/upload/img_pict/headline88b035.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sl0o0m (talk • contribs) 13:12, 14 December 2007 (UTC)