Talk:Abduction phenomenon

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Contents

[edit] Scientology reference in theories?

I might be mistaken, but it appears there's a Scientologist explanation on the part about possible explanations, second from the bottom, re: memories of birth. It is lacking citation. It also uses some weasel words like "(one that is gaining widespread acceptance"); this really isn't true. It's not scientifically viable, neo-nates don't have developed enough vision or senses, let alone memories, to encode something like that and recall it as traumatic. I have seen the theory before, but I believe it was a scientologist theory and should be both labeled as such and have the "widespread acceptance" tripe removed - it's psychologically ridiculous. I've deleted it on the grounds that upon rereading it, it's so slanted and unsupported that it simply doesn't belong. It touts itself as "one of the most comprehensive theories" as well, but without any support or scientific rigor. MrKeith2317 05:06, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] old talk

Shouldn't this page be called "Abduction phenomenon", with a lowercase P? -R. fiend 02:47, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Sexual reproduction procedures?

What do you mean by "sexual reproduction procedures"? Do you mean actual sex with the aliens? --User:Angie Y.

Reputedly, the aliens take the human DNA/RNA and splice it into their own DNA/RNA and/or into that of another creature. Martial Law 19:53, 14 April 2006 (UTC) :)
Angie: In some instances, yes (e.g. the Villas Boas brothers case), but mostly by medical extraction. Some abductees have claimed that they have been told that their eggs/sperm were being utilised to create a slave race on the host planet; others have claimed that they were told that the purpose was to create an enhanced human race to replace us, as we have clearly failed to take proper care of this planet. In at least one case, the abductee claimed he was quickly rejected after being told he was too old to be of any use for breeding. MayoPaul5 23:00, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sexual reproduction procedures

One view in ufology is that the main purpose of the abduction phenomenon is to create hybrids between humans and the alien type Greys. These hybrids are created through sexual reproduction procedures. During an abduction Greys usually collect eggs from women and sperm from men. They then create hybrids that are half Grey, half human. They may further create hybrids that are one quarter Grey, three quarters human or continue the process so that the hybrid is hardly distinguishable from humans. Under hypnosis there have been abductees that have recalled having sex with hybrids, but not aliens. Barney Hill 00:55, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Poor quote

"Emergency room physician Dr. John G. Miller asks "How can a person have any firmly held belief about this when it's so mysterious? The opinions of the true believers are hard to swallow; and the opinions of the die-hard skeptics are not based on reality either. There is some middle ground ... It's clear that this is some sort of powerful subjective experience. But I do not know what the objective reality is. It's as if the evidence leads us in both directions."

Emergency room Physician? Why does his opinion on this matter? He says nothing that his stated field(Physician) would give him any insight into, and the article does not elaborate on why he is any sort of authority in this matter. Why not quote Emergency Sewer Cleaner John Smith:"All Alien Abduction people are nut-jobs."? Pretty much the same thing as far as I'm concerned, except for the fact that John Smith is right and John G. Miller ain't.

Sounds like the Robertson Panel and other govt. sanctioned protocol, such as state they're nuts or lose your job. Martial Law 20:03, 14 April 2006 (UTC) :)

On this topic, anybody's opinion is as valid as anybody else's - as long as it doesn't conflict with the evidence. "Emergency Sewer Cleaner John Smith's" evidence does. It's important for the success of Wikipedia that people learn something about a topic before cluttering Wikipedia's talk pages.(Ericlord (talk) 18:58, 27 January 2008 (UTC))

[edit] Re-sited comments

Resited the following comment to here, as it is not well-phrased. It may be true, but is pure unsourced opinion and therefore more of a discussion point:
CORRECTION: 1. The contact/abduction phenomenon goes back to Zarathustra (Iran) who was confronted by entities which are extraterrestrials and they fly what we call UFOs. It even goes back farther then Zarathustra. 2. It is sad to see all these educated comments that they have no right to make or claim because they are using others good or bad experience with what were known as GODS in ancient times for their monetary gain. A visit is good for the good and bad for the bad and all of you are missing out on why we are here. 3. You should all stop referring our great ancestors as ALIENS. 4. CUFOS has no clue to what is going on our planet and to get an award for sharing others experiences is disrespectful.

[edit] Famous disappearances

Why has nobody suggested that certain notable disappearances are the result of alien abduction - the Princes in the Tower, Marie Celeste, Lord Lucan etc? (Slightly tongue in cheek). What about the suggestion that (forget which) UN Secretary General was the subject of an alien abduction?

See UFO Casebook, then look for UFO Abducts Woman! Two CIA men, UN Delegate, Millions See it! Martial Law 06:58, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
I've seen other reports of this nature in which the reason people "go missing" is that some aliens eat them, especially the Greys, Reptilians. Go to www.maar.us for more as well. Martial Law 07:02, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Majority of ufo reports are from responsible people.

I added the statement "The vast majority of reports from around the world come from sober, responsible people" to the intro because I have read in several different books that this is so, but cannot remember which specific books. Can anyone help with this source? One thing I read is that the majority of ufo-sighting reports are filed by aircrew, military personnel and policemen - trained observers all, with much to lose in sticking their necks out. Some government ministers including one French minister and at least one US president are amongst those who risked their reputation to file reports of their personal experiences. MayoPaul5 19:43, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I think one problem here is that you have added a statement about reports of UFO sightings, to a paragraph discussing abductions, but you just say "reports". This gives the false impression to the reader that you are talking about abduction reports. Tex 23:31, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
Accept your point entirely Tex, but said nothing of this in the article - only on talk page. MayoPaul5 22:50, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
You say you added it to the intro, and the article history shows the sentence you have in quotes, see version of 05:31, 27 April 2006. Perhaps I am misunderstanding you. What is it you are saying you said nothing of in the article? Tex 23:06, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, Tex, I'm getting plain disoriented. Some other editor wiped the whole paragraph anyway, which I had just been trying to tone down, not wipe. MayoPaul5 18:11, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Ever hear about the Robertson Panel ? This and similar govt. protocol says that people who see/spot UFOs are to be ridiculed. I have a Popular Mechanics magazine that has a UFO on the cover that has some of this protocol in it, saying that, among other things, if you are a kid and see one, you are to be ignored outright. It was initated in 1953 by the CIA. Martial Law 07:09, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
How many people have noticed that the type of people least likely to see a UFO is an astronamer and amature star gazers?
Could it be because they know what they are seeing when they look into the sky and see something there, or is it just coinicence? (after all, there are very few stargazers in the world).
perfectblue 13:08, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures and intro....

I've added pictures and around a paragraph to the intro going into a quick description of basic abduction, What do you think? --Mahogany 20:40, 31 May 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Hard Science versus Bullshit and Hoaxes

I would like to see all of Wikipedians over time do their best to put up all of the photos of the unclear and the grey and grainy UFO's that are quickly proven and discovered to be lauaghble hoaxes. Against all of the other possible photos tha were taken over the past 70 or more years that have been critically analyzed by experts and the truth and the information concerning those photos has not been confidentlly reconciled nor been boiled down. I remain skeptical about little green men and flying saucers. I think everything here on earth that flies in the air has been made by mortal men. But I figure that in a observable universe of trillons upon trillons of stars. Not every one of those cases can be isolated down to human deception and bull shit. Send e-mail responses to: Summerblynk@Yahoo.com Cuyahoga County, Cleveland, Ohio, 44109-4665, 02:09 AM, 20th July 2006 (UTC)

You would expect to get clearer pictures considering of the advancment in Camera technology. come on Hoax If there were UFos they would land in hevily denced areas to say were here. most of these people are nutters —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.209.72.227 (talk) 10:59, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A personal theory

I'm not really into this stuff but it occurred to me one day while reading an article on Anesthesia awareness that alien abduction scenario's may very well be "inspired" by repressed memories of a surgical operation. A few striking similarities:

  • complete paralysis while being fully conscious
  • the operation table as the "metal table" of the aliens
  • awareness of a presence of beings (surgeons)
  • green and otherwise masked people performing "experiments"
  • excruciating pain associated with the operation in question

The impact of anesthesia awareness is obviously related to the degree of consciousness during the operation. There have been numerous reports of people being fully aware but paralyzed during heart or eye surgery. While traumatizing, these people know what has happened to them. But I reckon there are also a number of cases in which anesthesia was only partially obtained. The "victims" might not have been fully aware but left with traumatizing impressions nonetheless. It is possible that at some point or another in their life, these memories resurface and are miscontrued as an alien abduction. --Steerpike 11:30, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another personal theory

I consider myself an abductee in a sense, but i don't believe this phenomenom has an extra-terestial origin. I had this experience at the age of 8 or 9. Woke up in the middle of the night, feeling a presence in my bedroom. First thought it was my mum checking up on me, if was realy was a sleep and such. The room seemed exceptionally light, and the figure in my room was blurry, long and slim and hard to distinguish, i was sure there was someone/thing there and that is was moving towards my bed slowly. I tried to talk in a "mum?" fashion, but there was no sound coming out of my mouth. Tried to move, then i tried to scream, but nothing happend. The harder i tried, the more i paniced. I realy freaked out that night and slept bad for months. By lack of another explanation at that age i wrote it off as a realy bad nightmare, and after a while the memory faded and eventually completely forgot the incident. You grow up, watch discovery, read science magazines and learn of things like sleep-paralysis and 'electromagnetics fields can trigger out-of-body-, and pressence-in-the-room-experiences' (the experiment with the yellow helmet with spools in it) and such. I remembered my 'abduction' one day, and connected the old digital (always humming) alarm clock standing next to my bed with the results from the experiments mentioned above, enough explanation for me. Only later i realized that my experience matches 90% of the details of most 'abduction' stories i've read, heared and seen on tv. The bright ligt, the vage elongated figure in the room closing in and the absolute terror i found myself to be in.

I've never been abused or such, basically had no traumatic experiences in my life ever (my grandma passing away being the most heavy) and mentally i'm solid as a rock. I really think living/sleeping near electromagnatical sources (digital alarm clock, outlet in the wall, powergrid-lines close to the house, etc) would be a possible (viable) explanation. This is hardly ever mentioned with respect to this phenomenom; it seems explanations always have to have something to do with previous traumatic experiences, mental unstability, etc. Is there any research in this field anyone knows of? I mean, plotting all 'abductions' and comparing them to the powergrid map or something shouldn't be too hard. (disclaimer: no, i didn't do any extensive research, just occasionally read some stuff i happen to 'surf in to', so if there is lots on this, my bad) d_code 05:09, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DMT

I'd like to see more on the DMT theory. I have heard of it before and I understand there are real scholastic articles on it. I'd like a bit more knowledge of theories relating to effects of this chemical. --Spesek 19:31, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Testable Alternative Theories

1. Detailed description/drawings from abductees in non-Western countries, preferrable with no/little western media infludence. This should provide a more lucid description of the type of abduction. Perhaps they have simliar experiences, but not by aliens--instead, something feared and unknown by their culture. Drawings would be important.

2. Subject people to hypnosis and "suggest" they were abducted by monsters, or something else than aliens, to see if a desired response can be elicited.

3. Someone mentioned above that perhaps its linked to anesthesia/surgical operations.

4. More research into sleep paralysis as a related phenomina; although similar in some ascpets very different in others.

5. Further studies into possible repressed memories of negative sexual experiences.

[edit] Article Request

Can this and this be consolidated into a abduction article ? These discribe a woman who was abducted from her apartment in New York City by aliens. This abduction was witnessed by millions of New Yorkers, incl. two CIA agents, a U.N. Delegate, other VIPs, was investigated by Budd Hopkins. Martial Law 21:46, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

The former link has a pix of the U.N. Delegate. Martial Law 21:49, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I sugest to add too some info about extrange OBJECTS INSERTED in the body (chips, metal ...). This is probably the MAIN PHYSICAL EVIDENCE of the phenomenon.

[edit] Where can I put this?

In the 1990's the very popular X Files television program featured alien abduction as a central theme.

It was just put up in the later developments section, and seemed out of place there.

[edit] A televised "Alien abduction".

A few years back a TV station aired a show that was supposed to be an actual video taping on an alien abduction. This family was video taping their Thanksgiving preparations when a UFO landed in their back yard. The aliens came after them and the family fought back, shooting an alien with a shotgun in the process. During their struggle it was revealed that they were previously visited by these aliens because there were electronic devices placed at the bottoms of the backs of their necks. Ultimately the aliens prevailed and the family was never heard from again; the last footage showing one of the aliens turning off the video camera.

Does anyone else remember this program? If so, what was the name of the family and the program? I would love to know if the were ever found in another state or country.


You're looking for Incident In Lake County, which was a televised fictional drama. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0142074/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.146.229.35 (talk) 19:17, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notable figures section

In the Notable figures section, under "Fiction," cartoon character "Homer Jay Simpson" is listed.

Can anyone can explain why Homer Simpson is notable as far as the abduction phenomenon is concerned? If not, I would elect to remove that reference. Your thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks. Labyrinth13 18:38, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Alien Abduction in Science Fiction

Shouldn't these fictional abductions be listed in the article? Reading pulp science fiction mags was very popular in America in the 1920's and 1930. So much so that one Orson Welles terrified the whole nation when he claimed over the radio that the aliens had in fact landed...Colin4C 11:08, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Numerous massive problems

This is an important and highly notable phenomenon which has an atrocious clunker of an article. It's littered with unattributed or weasel-worded statements of fact on contentious matters. I have abstained from line-by-line tagging because I believe that the majority of article text should not be composed of maintenance tags. In addition, it has ugly and incorrect citation style, rambling and incoherent structure, and constant annoying interjections of "(see below)", "as noted above," etc.

  • Skeptics tend to doubt that the phenomenon occurs literally...
By definition, skeptics tend to doubt. This reads like an attempt to limit denial of abduction kooks to people like James Randi, it is at least as POV as "anyone with at least a tenuous grip on reality tends to doubt..."
  • few mainstream scientists believe ... some experts contend
Who?
  • Stigma and self-doubt may be obstacles...
Who says this? I had the impression that most of these people just love to talk about their abduction experience to anyone who will listen. The random personal stories on this talk page are a case in point.
  • Emergency room physician Dr. John G. Miller asks...
Prima facie, this is no more notable than what an electrical engineer has to say about particle physics, or what a 2rd-chair violinist has to say about symphonic composition.
  • Even hearing a tape recording of (or watching a video recording of) a hypnotic regression session can be a chilling experience, leaving little doubt to some observers...
Translation: "I like, totally saw this video tape, and it was crazyness OMG WTF LOL"
  • some argue that there is a broad, fairly consistent sequence...
Who?
  • some researchers ... have been accused of excluding, minimising or suppressing testimony or data...
What makes these researchers matter? Who accused them, and to what end did they say the data was suppressed?
  • "terror abduction" experience is reported mainly in the USA, while in the rest of the world, the ET encounters are said to be largely benevolent
How do we know?
  • this apparent incongruity perhaps raising a question as to the phenomenon's origins
Obvious original research...
  • mechanical failure and interference are also common, such as a car radio producing static or behaving abnormally. Such descriptions match that of an EM pulse...
Obvious original research, and I think that "aliens zapped my car" stories predate computer chips in automobiles by decades.

That takes me through the first two sections, maybe 1/3 of the article. I'm going to stop now to avoid spamming the talk page.

Eleland 04:16, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not very good at all

This submission is absolutely terrible. It would be nice if someone who actually knows what they are talking about, like David Jacobs or Budd Hopkins, would come along and rewrite the entire thing. That picture of the gray is especially hilarious. That thing has a broader nose than I do and the reports of Grays consistently indicate that they have basically no noses at all. Where are the truly good abduction cases in this submission? Where are the Allagash http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case466.htm, Kelly Cahill http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case187.htm, and Parker/Hickson abduction cases http://www.nicap.org/pascagouladir.htm? Anyone who takes the time to read an extensive account of any of those three cases and concludes that they are not legitimate is either A:) An idiot, or B:) In denial. There is no option C. Rubbish.

(Wickerman1972 07:14, 3 September 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Aliens, Abductions

This subject would predispose two things, first that their were in fact aliens, second that they really were {in fact} abducting anyone. Maybe they think that we're the aliens and we otherwise confuse and confound them?

But, alien theories in general would be very good cover stories for all sorts of unpleasent goings on. [1]

[edit] Alien Abduction in Europe

This wiki cited that Alien Abduction phenomena in Europe is interpited as demon possesion, this is not the case since popular culture already caught up a long time ago, most parts of modern europe interpit it as alien abduction, there may be some Christian fundementalist that may interpit it as such but it is more rare so that statement was inaccurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by GrOuNd ZeRo (talk • contribs) 02:11, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


[edit] "Emergency room physician Dr. John G. Miller asks"

What expertise does this person have to be quoted in an encyclopedia? I propose taking his quote out. We have no way to verify this, as its can't be checked out online. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mwinog2777 (talk • contribs) 03:04, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Since no-one needs any qualifications to contribute to Wikipedia, it seems inconsistent to insist that a person quoted in the text should be qualified. In any case, what does it mean to have 'expertise' on this topic? What "emergency room physician Dr. John G. Miller" (whoever he is) has to say is neither more nor less relevant or interesting than anything else in this article, anyway! On the other hand, the context of any quote (a book, a talk show, an interview, a private communication...) in a Wikipedia article needs to be mentioned.(Ericlord (talk) 17:43, 26 January 2008 (UTC))

[edit] Wikipedia MALFUNCTION

Wikipedia now accepts edits into the History section ONLY, NOT into the article. 205.240.146.37 (talk) 03:48, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Occult, Demon references

What the hell (no pun intended) is that shit doing here in this article ? The article is about alien abduction, NOT demonic possession. Sounds like govt. meddling in religion to help "debunk", i.e. ridicule people who have been abducted by aliens and insult religious people at the same time. 65.173.104.52 (talk) 19:25, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Because of that shit, Pat Robertson of the 700 Club, the PTL Club once said that,"Alien abductees should be stoned to death, because they're screwing around with The Devil." 65.173.104.52 (talk) 19:30, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
It's definitely a sensitive thing, I think it'd help if the article mentioned only ONCE (instead of three times) that there's a similarity between spiritual hallucinations and UFO-related ones. The point is valid and shouldn't be ignored, but shouldn't be harped on either. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.122.63.142 (talk) 15:45, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] What will it take ?!

Will it take some really famous person, a world leader abducted by aliens for skeptics to accept that someone/something has a interest in humanity, this planet ? Just curious 65.163.112.28 (talk) 06:44, 2 January 2008 (UTC) :D

FYI, some physical evidence like a craft or a body would do it for me. I'm afraid celebrity abductions would be just as dubious. Jefffire (talk) 09:46, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Hey Jeffire, get a STRONG light, 10X+ binoculars and find a "UFO Hotspot". After making sure the target is not some kind of plane, use the light to signal the UFO. Some fishermen had done that and got abducted, examined by "insectoids", then their life went to hell in a handbasket, mainly due to some govt./military programming that is designed to keep them silent and suffering. 65.163.112.28 (talk) 05:59, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm intrigued by this story about the fishermen. I wish to know where "65.163.112.28" got this fascinating information - I'd like to know more! (Ericlord (talk) 17:48, 26 January 2008 (UTC))

I believe he's referring to the Allagash Abductions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.211.235.97 (talk) 01:39, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Inadequacies of this contribution - and some GENERAL REMARKS ABOUT LINKS FROM WIKI ARTICLES

The literature on this topic has now become vast and labyrinthine. Attempts to try to summarise it in an encyclopedia entry are doomed to failure; whoever has attempted it here is to be commended for bravery and self-confidence. The result, unfortunately, is inadequate in very many ways. The references and bibliography in particular are woefully inadequate. (No mention even of Jacques Vallee, or the thought-provoking book 'Angels and Aliens' by Keith Thompson, or the investigations of Nick Pope in connection with his work for the UK Ministry of Defence, et cetera, et cetera [perhaps I'll insert these after I've written this...]), while some of the absurd 'skeptical' so-called 'theories' such as 'birth trauma memories' and 'sleep paralysis' are given undue prominence.

The links from specific words raise a more general problem of Wikipedia policy. The elaborate cross-referencing in Wikipedia ameliorates to some extent the inadequacy of reference lists and bibliographies. But sometimes this cross-referencing is so excessive as to be ludicrous. Surely, links to 'United States', 'university', 'fear', 'automobile', 'asparagus'(!) - to select a few at random - are TOTALLY out of place in an encyclopedia article on 'Alien abduction'. Wikipedia urgently needs a criterion for relevant links. (Ericlord (talk) 17:55, 27 January 2008 (UTC))

So fix it as you see fit. --omtay38 17:48, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

OK omtay, I've had a go, but much more's needed on this article to remove bias. (Ericlord (talk) 22:00, 31 January 2008 (UTC))

[edit] Thoughts from Carl Sagan

Perhaps this quote could be integrated in the article?: "The aliens seem strangely backward in biology for all their advances in physics, if you take it seriously. Why are they doing breeding one on one at such a slow pace? Why not steal a few humans, sequence our DNA, look at variations and make whatever genetic engineering changes they want. We almost have the ability to do that. It seems naive in terms of molecular biology." - Carl Sagan, Nova On-line 84.48.35.203 (talk) 12:37, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Communion book cover.jpg

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[edit] Carbamazepine

I believe this was the med that was cited. Anyway, in one part of the article it says there is a woman that was seeing strange beings around her bed every night and that she was given an antiepileptic and stopped seeing it. The author understandably concluded that she must have had epilepsy since she was given an anti-epileptic, but that not all people with epilepsy see beings around their beds. Anyway, it should be explained that anti-epileptics are only referred to as anti-epileptics when being provided for epilepsy, but when they are being provided for something else they are referred to differently. Indeed, many anti-epileptics are prescribed as antiphsychotic medications. In this case, I am assuming that when she told her Dr. about the beings he assumed it to be hallucinations and prescribed the drug as an antipsychotic. He may have told her "this is an antiepileptic" to make it less stigmatizing. Either way, I wouldn't necessarily assume someone to be psychotic for seeing beings around there bed at night. It is common around the world and is probably best explained by sleep paralysis and hypnogognic and hypnopomic hallucinations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.207.119.52 (talk) 20:42, 25 May 2008 (UTC)