Talk:A Series of Unfortunate Events

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Good article A Series of Unfortunate Events has been listed as one of the Arts good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
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To-do list for A Series of Unfortunate Events: edit · history · watch · refresh
  • Needs more sources everywhere.
    1. Also needs more sources cited from the books.
    2. Citation templates make the references section look neater.
  • Add more relevant pictures.
    1. Fair use rationales should be on any non-free images used in the article.
  • Convert the Awards section into a prose subsection of a much larger section called Reception
    1. Expand the Reception section, adding more reviews, both negative and positive, and more details about sales and individual sales numbers for the books.
  • Possibly expand the Origins section into a larger History section.
  • Convert all lists to prose.
    1. Current lists are: Allusions and Awards.
Priority 3  
This is not a forum for general discussion of rumors and speculation about the series.
Any such messages will be deleted. Please limit discussion to improvement of the article.
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Contents

[edit] First image

I really don't like the idea of having all the main book's covers as the lead image; I think it was better they way it was before with having The Bad Beginning's cover. The lead image should be something to represent the series, and I think having all the book's covers looks cluttered, you can't really see any of the covers since they're so small anyway, and, it's overall, just pointless. Do you think it should stay the way it is, be the Bad Beginning cover again, or have an entirely new picture? Mrmoocow 07:06, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Would it hurt to add to the existing section on the talk page about this rather than create your own right at the top? And I feel that all the covers do a good job of representing the full series; however, they're rubbish images, so unless anyone can be bothered to go get good pictures off HarperChildren's, then sure, change it back.
You may also want to re-examine your edit of this talk page to add this section, as you've managed to make half the page blue. 217.44.118.112 12:02, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
That was Clamster, not me. Her signature is broken. Mrmoocow 02:25, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Okay, apologies. Also, your change to the old picture does make the article look more professional. 81.158.7.240 15:51, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Snicket as steampunk

I think we should go through this in detail before we consider re-nominating this for featured article. Let's start with facts - steampunk? I don't understand the link. I've never heard the series associated with steampunk, nor did steampunk ever cross my mind while reading them. This is an excellent time to get a source about the books being steampunk, rather than making an assertion that the books are steampunk. Anyone have any ideas, or should we remove the reference? --badlydrawnjeff talk 01:57, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not confident they are all that steampunk - or if they are, it's only in a very broad sense. It's more that they take place in an amalgamation of time periods without picking one over the other. Looking at the steampunk article, I guess that the books are inspired by an era when steam power was widely used but with prominent elements of either science fiction or fantasy, but like I said, that seems an awfully broad definition that could fit probably just about every book set in a kind of penny-dreadful setting. 217.42.64.32 09:20, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

There IS a source there, if you go to the genre section. I can get more for you if you like. Anyway; while reading the series, no, it didn't make me think 'this is a steam punk series' but thinking back on it, the series DOES fit the definition of steampunk. Mrmoocow 07:04, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

The source looks rather subjective to me, and not at all comprehensive; I'm not sure an offhand mention of the series as an example of steampunk, on an anime site I've never heard of, really fits attribution guidelines. Not that I know much about them, but it's probably about the most obscure and unrelated source anyone could find. 217.42.64.32 09:20, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. I'm not sure an anime site is all that reliable regarding the genre of a textual book. Combine that with the point that, from my admittedly minimal research, only Wikipedia and these people are claiming as such, it seems more than a little fishy. --badlydrawnjeff talk 17:57, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I admit that the source wasn't the best one to use. However, if you put '"Lemony Snicket" steampunk', or '"A Series of Unfortunate Events" steampunk' into Google, it is obvious that the series has been oft referred to as steampunk. Anyway, I wasn't the one who originally put the 'steampunk' in the article. Perhaps we should vote on the matter? Mrmoocow 21:57, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
It's not really worth voting on - either we have reliable sources that refer to it as steampunk - and my google search doesn't turn up much in that department - or we don't. Even if some do refer to it as steampunk, it's not the only type of book it is, nor is it the most obvious one, nor is it the most oft-cited one. At best, steampunk is worth a mention if we have the sources. --badlydrawnjeff talk 23:38, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lead Image

I like the current lead image being pictures of each of the books; however, I think it could be improved by compiling all the covers into a single file (rather than thirteen separate ones), and by using cleaned-up cover images such as the ones found here. 217.42.64.91 09:05, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Horseradish info

What about the newest book "Horseradish: bitter truths you can't avoid"?? can someone get information about that book and add it there? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.143.116.219 (talk) 18:00, 2 May 2007 (UTC).

What really needs to be added about it? It's not very interesting, and it's not technically part of ASOUE at all.

[edit] Lets Improve This Article - Cite and Reference Statements

Heres links to things like reviews that can help us cite many of the statements in this article.

***Clamster 23:27, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Here's an interesting negative review of The Penultimate Peril that might serve as a counter-example: http://www.utahvalleymonitor.com/index.php?s=content&p=media-books-unfortunate-events
Also, the series has actually sold fifty million, according to Handler himself. And that was before The End. I'll add this one. http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/generalfiction/story/0,,1792233,00.html
81.158.7.240 15:01, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] From the To-Do list

I believe there are enough images with descriptive enough fair use rationale now to strike off the "Add Images and fair use rationale" item. Imasleepviking 18:13, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Moral relativism

I am not certain whether the books could be said to espouse the view of moral relativism. It is true that it is a theme ventilated in the later books, especially the Penultimate Peril, but is this in a serious manner? It is indeed difficult to tell right from wrong when you are dealing with identical triplets, one of which is good, one of which is evil, and one of which is thought to be a mythological figure, but all troughout the books there is a very clear line between the forced actions of the Baudelaires and the leisurely evil deeds of Count Olaf et al.

The moral relativism is found in connection with the second theme of these books: the first being the fight between the orphans and the count, which is "real", whereas the second theme, the introduction of the schism within the VFD, is clearly just one shoal of red herrings. Very little is explained and matters are consciously muddled to explain away gaps in the story and the disappearances of several characters. Half of the secondary characters were last seen in a giant fire, the other half vanished into a "question mark" submarine, and no answers were ever given. In fact, the only "ism" which comfortably fits The Penultimate Peril seems to be pyrrhonism, that you cannot know anything at all, even less tell anyone about your knowledge.

The Beatrice Letters, which obviously implies the disappearance of the Baudelaires under identical circumstances as in "The End" (ship-wrecking with "Beatrice") but clearly at a much later occasion (after Sunny had presented her recipes on a radio show) is another example of how utterly awkwardly Snicket presents the story in the later books. The theme of moral relativism is introduced, but is this theme only a companion to the general muddling up of the story, i.e. a part of the "anti-narrative", the spanner in the works? It's difficult indeed to draw any conclusions from such weird books as ASOUE. I read an interview with Handler (who is Jewish) where he did not exactly deny that the books were some sort of reflection on the Holocaust. That may possibly explain why they, neither, make much sense. Sponsianus 21:07, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA

Enjoyed this one. Passed. Vikrant Phadkay 17:47, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! And uh, could someone update the article milestones? Mrmoocow 21:09, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
Although this article was only passed yesterday, after reviewing it quickly myself I've noticed a number of problems with the article, some of which would typically keep the article from GA status. Those issues I've noticed are:
  • Some of the images do not specify their source. If they are a scan, say so. If they're from the internet provide a link.
  • Many of the sections are poorly referenced, most notably the Distribution section.Y Done
  • The references are poorly formatted. I would recommend using citation templates to fix that. Also, in-line citations should go after punctation, not before. This.[1] Not this [2].Y Done
  • The lead should be expanded considerably. Look at WP:Lead for more information.
  • I fail to see the point of the "People" and "Literary works" sections. They're bsically glorified trivia sections, which are generally frowned upon. See WP:Trivia for more on that. Also, why are they subsections of the "Genres" section?Y Done
  • The wikiquote box should be in the "External links" section.Y Done

Hopefully someone can address those issues. If not, I'll nominate the article for GA review soon. Drewcifer3000 21:21, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Good Article review

Given the above, I've asked for a Good Article review. Contributors and reviewers alike are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Drewcifer 02:57, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Following the GA reassessment discussion, no consensus was reached, and so it was kept as per the procedure. You can read the discussion here, it may still have points that are relevant to the future development of the article. -Malkinann 22:27, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Sunny first speaking?

I don't know if Sunny actually says her first sentence in book #7 or #10. In book #2, on page 25, she says "no, no, no," in response to a question. It also strikes me as odd that all of the examples of her speaking comes from books 10 or 11. 70.244.107.138 18:52, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Time Setting

Another clue as to what time period the books are set in is in "The Ersatz Elevator". In the beginning of the book when Mr. Poe is talking to the doorman, he suggests a good halogen lamp for the dark lobby of 667 Dark Ave. As far as I know, halogen lamps weren't developed until the early 1960s. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.14.240.171 (talk) 20:02, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I get the impression that there is no time setting. Sure you can see horsedrawn carriages & motocycles in New York, but I think he made it as ambiguous as possible. Only on book 3, but the same probably goes for the country it all takes place in. I rather feel it's all happening in Europe, but I don't think he ever says. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.161.122.193 (talk) 23:52, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Jewish Secrets of Lemony Snicket

http://www.momentmag.com/Exclusive/2007/2007-02/200702-Handler.html [1] The author spoke in this interview about :

  • The orphans are jewish

"Are the Baudelaires Jewish? Oh yeah! Yes. The Baudelaires are Jewish!"

  • There is secrets in the books : such as rabbi names and jewish themes

why this information aren't in the article? I can not put it because my english is Very Bad as anyone can see! .. Is there anyone can help? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.204.163.3 (talk) 09:29, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I believe you & he does make a lot of references, but it doesn't seem important to write anything religious about authors or artists.

[edit] Automatic addition of "class=GA"

A bot has added class=GA to the WikiProject banners on this page, as it's listed as a good article. If you see a mistake, please revert, and leave a note on the bot's talk page. Thanks, BOT Giggabot (talk) 04:34, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fire Tongs & Pokers.

In book 6, Snicket kept saying "fire tongs" but Helquist kept drawing pokers. A poker is shaped like a spear, but tongs are more like huge tweezers.