Talk:A. P. Hill

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[edit] Full name in title?

Shouldn't this article renamed (moved to) Ambrose Powell Hill? I know most historical texts refer to A. P. Hill, but it seems un-encyclopedic to use initials in titles for articles.

Second, it seems odd that there is no space between A. and P. Is that some standard I'm not aware of?

I know that historical military articles don't get much attention in Wikipedia. If no one comments for a week or so, I'm going to move the article and leave redirects for the other versions of his name.

-- A D Monroe III 02:00, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)


The following text in the article is inaccurate:

When Virginia seceded, he was made colonel of a Virginia infantry regiment, winning promotion to the rank of brigadier general on the field of Bull Run.

A.P. Hill’s regiment (13th Virginia) arrived on the Manassas Battlefield by train with Arnold Elzey’s Brigade about 12:30 p.m. on July 21, 1862. The battle raged in the distance and Elzey’s Brigade hurried in the direction of the firing. Before reaching the battle Elzey detached the 13th Virginia to the lower Bull Run fords. The 13th Virginia and A. P. Hill participated very little in the Battle of First Manassas or Bull Run. Hill felt again that he had been cheated of an opportunity to display his merits and he remained Colonel of the 13th Virginia until February 1862.

A. P. Hill was promoted to Brigadier-general upon the recommendation of General Joseph E. Johnston and assumed command of James Longstreet’s former brigade (1st, 7th, 11th and 17th Virginia infantry plus Loudoun artillery). With this brigade he distinguished himself at the Battle of Williamsburg on May 5, 1862 and about one month later was promoted to Major-general in command of a division of six brigades which Hill termed the “Light Division.”

The article seems very sketchy. There is a great deal of interesting material regarding his engagement to Ellen Marcy and the serious personal controversy with both Generals Longstreet and Jackson. That he suffered from gonorrhoea as a West Point cadet is reported but the other far more interesting facts are omitted.

Please have the inaccurate statements corrected and review the other very interesting facts regarding A. P. Hill’s life.


Thomas Miller

[edit] Legacy

The mention of "...complications of veneral[sic] disease, possibly gonorrhea...", without citing sources leaves the article open to criticism. I would think that it may be an issue with his descendants. Elementary school teachers may also take issue with it when their students cut and paste that section (without even understanding) into a biography. Citing "Some historians believe..." seems more like a tabloid than an encyclopedia.

If you do choose to cite some references, I don't think it deserves to take top spot under "Legacy". It certainly wouldn't be something that I would want as a legacy and I doubt that Hill would either. Perhaps it deserves mention (if at all) under a "Medical" heading. --Dogfish 21:32, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

See if the changes I just made are satisfactory. I don't think "Medical" is a good heading because the condition had a direct effect on how his generalship was evaluated. I once heard a Gettysburg LBG say that "Hill spent a night with Venus and a lifetime with Mercury" although I don't think that was a treatment for gonorrhea. More accurate jokes are needed. :-) Hal Jespersen 00:08, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
I think that you went over and above on the changes... well done. I understand that his recurring illness affected his performance and warranted mention. I'm new to this. Now that the issue is resolved, do I delete my comments or does one leave it intact for future electronic archeologists to ponder..? --Dogfish 02:29, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Leave the interchange as-is. Eventually, if the Talk page gets too full, we may archive old comments. But we generally only remove vandalism. Hal Jespersen 16:22, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
My thoughts: AP Hill was a distinctive leader in the Civil War. The issues of possible gonorrhea are significant - but one must remember it was a common disease then. Not sure how to incorporate that opinion into the article. But it ought to be included.... Engr105th 06:55, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
The way to include the thought is to find a secondary source (professional historian writing in a published work) about Hill and footnote it. In my readings about APH, I have not found such an opinion. The guy performed poorly in the war's biggest battle due to illness, so it's an illness of note. Hal Jespersen 21:00, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Agree with you Jespersen...If we can't isolate the disease as an STD, then leave it as "disease". I must admit, I can't find anything referencing any original source for gonorrhea other than second hand jokes (if thats what they are). Could be anything - drank some bad water 2 days before... ???? Engr105th 06:54, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
I don't understand your comment. The article clearly documents the disease as gonorrhea, citing Robertson's bio as a source. What we were discussing is whether to edit in a comment that says "Please don't think poorly of Little Powell because gonorrhea was very common in that era." My view is that opinion should be included only if we quote a secondary source saying it about Hill in this context. Hal Jespersen 13:54, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] E B on A P

Encyclopædia Britannica lists its article as "Hill, A P"

The article begins as "Hill, A(mbrose) P(owell)"

Source: Hill, A P.Encyclopædia Britannica. Retrieved June 13, 2006, from Encyclopædia Britannica 2006 Ultimate Reference Suite DVD .

Interesting to note that EB has dispensed with the use of periods with abbreviations (at least in this case). I knew the standard was evolving but I didn't know the extent. --Dogfish 05:02, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I think they dispense the periods only if the actual name can be interchanged with the letters, if not, it remains with a period. Lincher 11:23, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Can you expand upon that? I have no idea what that phrase means: "actual name can be interchanged with the letters". Hal Jespersen 14:43, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
When the name of the guy is known, e. g.: A P Hill ... Ambrose Powell Hill, then they will not use punctuation for the letters. If the name of the guy is unknown, e.g. A. A. Raiba then they will leave the name with the punctuation. Am I clearer? Lincher 18:22, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Yes, now it's clear. Thanks. Quite an odd editorial convention. I'd be interested to know how they punctuate Ulysses S. Grant and Harry S. Truman. :-) Hal Jespersen 18:34, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
They are written that way : Grant, Ulysses S./Ulysses S. Grant and Truman, Harry S./Harry S. Truman, with the slash separating the different titles that are seen on EB2006 (online)'s articles.
The other funny thing is Hill, A(mbrose) P(owell) is the title of the article on EB2006 but the title of the page is A. P. Hill. Lincher 21:20, 10 October 2006 (UTC)