Talk:A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

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Date: 09:31, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
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[edit] New external link?

--59.97.224.9 (talk) 11:01, 20 November 2007 (UTC)Servant of servant of Vaishnavas


[edit] Who gave Prabhupada the name "Prabhupada"?

"His later name of Prabhupada, literally meaning "he who has taken the position of the Lord" [7] (i.e one who is representing Krishna) was given later on by Prabhupada's disciples in America after he had been promoting Krishna Consciousness there for some time."

Dear Vaishnavas,

I claim that this statement is incorrect and misleading. I believe Prabhupada himself requested his disciples to address him by the name "Prabhupada." My argument follows:

Prabhupada was known to his American disciples as "Swamiji" from 1965 until he returned from India to America on December 16, 1967, when his disciples first began calling him "Prabhupada." Where did his disciples get this name "Prabhupada?"

None had been to India except for Kirtanananda Swami who stayed with Prabhupada in India about a month, then returned to the U.S. and got in big trouble by misleading the New York devotees. He was banned from the temple and was living with Hayagriva in Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania, during December 1967. No one would have listened to him at this time.

The only other disciples who had been to India with Prabhupada were Achyutananda and Ramanuja (see letters from Prabhupada to Satswarupa 6th October, 1967, and to Brahmananda 7th December, 1967) and both of them remained in India when Prabhupada returned to America (see letter from Prabhupada to Brahmananda 12th December, 1967).

So Prabhupada's disciples in America just suddenly one day decided to call him "Prabhupada?" Where did they learn this new form of address? From the Gaudiya Math? But only those disciples in India (Achyutananda and Ramanuja) would have had any contact with the Gaudiya Math, and they did not return to America until much later.

So Prabhupada must have taught his disciples to address him by the name "Prabhupada."

This is confirmed by Hayagriva in "Hare Krishna Explosion" pp. 228-229:

Quote:

Brahmananda phones me from New York. "Swamiji's leaving India," he tells me jubilantly. "He's flying to Japan. Then Los Angeles." . . .

We all write Swamiji, telling him how much he is needed. . . . We cry out for Swamiji.

And he appears in a wholly different and wonderful way. As the year wanes and Americans brace for another Christmas holiday, he arrives in San Francisco via Tokyo, December 16 [1967]. He doesn't arrive as the ailing Swamiji, but returns in full strength as "Prabhupada."

"Prabhupada means one who is always found at Krishna's lotus feet," he says. "Rupa Goswami was called Prabhupada because he was always worshipping the lotus feet of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. All the six major Goswamis were called Prabhupada. A spiritual master is usually addressed as Vishnupada, or Gurudeva, or Prabhupada. These signify reversance and respect."

"Oh, you mean Srila Prabhupada!" Brahmananda corrects me on the phone when I enquire about "Swamiji." "Yes, Srila Prabhupada is doing fine."

Unquote

Perhaps Brahmananda can be contacted to confirm this. His remembrance of would be helpful. Hamsadutta may remember also, as may Satsvarupa and Jadurany.

Any comments?

Sincerely Your Servant,

Hrishikesh dasa Henrydoktorski (talk) 03:37, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I think the answer to this is on the first of the "Following Srila Prabhupada" DVD's. One devotee retells the story, that goes something along the lines of the devotees finding out that the appendix 'ji' is third class. They ask Prabhupada what a first class name for the Spiritual Master is. He gives 3 answers - Gurumaharaja, Gurudeva, and Prabhupada. The devotee picked Prabhupada and it hence forth remained fixed.
Ys
Nitai-nam das Chopper Dave (talk) 03:56, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
That sounds correct to how I have heard it before also. Somewhere Prabhupada makes the point that he actually signs his letters simply as "Bhaktivedanta Swami", and it was his disciples who affectionately decided to use the term. Thus within ISKCON it became Prabhupada's recognised name. Gouranga(UK) (talk) 14:46, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


Many thanks dear friends for your thoughtful insight. I have heard this story before, but did not know it had been documented.
I just watched the "Following Srila Prabhupada: A Chronological Series" DVD 1 (Nov. 1965-July 1970). During the Boston 1968 section Govinda dasi speaks how Swamiji became Prabhupada.
In so many words (and my words are not exactly what she said, but I will try to get the gist), she explained that she was speaking with Prabhupada; she said definitely it was MAY 1968; and mentioned how Gaurasundara wanted to address her as "Govindaji." Prabhupada said "ji" was a second class form of address and he should simply call her Govinda dasi.
Then Govinda dasi piped in "But we call you 'ji!' We call you 'Swamiji!' What should we call you?"
Prabhupada didn't want to say anything, but Govinda dasi pressed him: "What should we call you?"
Prabhupada finally said, "You could call me 'Gurudeva, Gurumaharaja or Prabhupada."
Govinda dasi said, "That's three names. Which is the best?"
Prabhupada replied, "Prabhupada." From then on Govinda dasi made sure everyone called him Prabhupada instead of Swamiji.
Very nice story; well spoken.
However, the date is five months later than Hayagriva's account, which puts it at December 1967. I know Hayagriva kept a diary, which lends credence to his account. Does anyone have an explanation for this?
In any case, I think the above-mentioned text from the article should be revised to make it more neutral, something like:
At first his disciples called him "Swamiji," but later--probably late in 1968 or early in 1968--they began using the more respectful form of address: "Prabhupada" (literally meaning "he who has taken the position of the Lord," [7] i.e one who is representing Krishna).
Any more thoughts?
Sincerely Your Servant,
Hrishikesh dasa
Henrydoktorski (talk) 21:21, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Thankyou for clarifying the details on this one. I've amended the article text in-line with your suggestion above, but just swapped it around to fit in with the paragraph. Does this read okay from your view? It's definitely more accurate than it was before. Best wishes, Gouranga(UK) (talk) 10:20, 10 January 2008 (UTC) :-)

Yes, I agree the change is better. A small detail, but more accurate. I am grateful for this discussion and your input. Thank you, prabhu. Hrishikesh Henrydoktorski (talk) 14:11, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Check this out, prabhus! Just watched more from "Following Srila Prabhupada: A Chronological Series" DVD 1 (Nov. 1965-July 1970). During the section titled "April 1969, New York City, Temple at 61 2nd Ave," TWO devotees interviewed referred to Prabhupada as "Swamiji." This suggests that the transfer from the name "Swamiji" to "Prabhupada" was not immediate as implied by Hayagriva and Govinda dasi.

Hrishikesh Henrydoktorski (talk) 21:46, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

As with any name of the acarya Prabhupada is the name his followers address him. The relevant passage in the commentaries of the first canto was there indicating that this is the correct name to address the guru. As in many cases he had no interest in being call anything special and was accepting the name Swamiji. This name is a common name and is used throughout the beggining of his carrier in USA as depicted in Srila Prabhupada Lilamrita. It is however the name most academics[http://books.google.com/books?id=F-EuD3M2QYoC&pg=PA74&dq=Swami+Prabhupada&sig=JjQlZ-pT8ND0Gog0_PDJqFWVJy4 Krishna Consciousness in the West - Page 74 by David G. Bromley, Larry D. Shinn - Religion - 1989] would use [http://books.google.ie/books?id=l4cE-nzXLx8C&pg=PA275&dq=Swami+Prabhupada&sig=fNyEbFFjArTEAsIcDzt5Mu-AqUE The Hare Krishna Movement: Forty Years of Chant and Change - Page 275 by Graham Dwyer, Richard J. Cole - Religion - 2007] to refer to A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and he himself insisted that this full name to used on all his book covers. The Bhagavat comments passage reads Bhag. 1.115: "The pure devotees whose only business is serving are honored by the names PrabhupAda and ViNUupAda, which indicate such devotees to be representatives of the lotus feet of the Lord." Its earlier then any topics discussed is verifiable evidence as far as wiki is concerned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikidas (talk • contribs) 18:33, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Citation

In the following statement from the article :

A number of memorial samadhis or shrines to Prabhupada were constructed by members of ISKCON in his remembrance.

I really don't see the benefit in adding this second statement with a citation to the Prabhupada Lilamrita:

which is also reflected in ISKCON writers biographies of Prabhupada.

If a citation is required I think it would be much more useful to find one which describes something directly in relevance to the memorials constructed for Prabhupada. The Lilamrita, for example (which was cited) details the events within Prabhupada's lifetime from a devotional perspective, and doesn't really go into details concerning where samadhi's and shrines have been set up in the years following 1977. I don't see it as being an appropriate source of information in this regard. Thus I have removed the comment and reference. Regards, Gouranga(UK) (talk) 20:12, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The article

Its is stabilised. I think with a bit of effort it can move towards GA, I will work on the references. Wikidās-ॐ 08:15, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Since the article stabilised and I have added proper references and provided a NPOVs references, I suggest final edits by the editors who were contributing to the article. Following the general proofing and copyedit, I would suggest nominating it towards GA (Good Article). Wikidās-ॐ 14:19, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Redtiger, big thanks for bringing the article to its current state and removing all duplicate wikilinks. As it stands it has been listed in the nominated section of GA process. Wikidās-ॐ 10:05, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
I don't think it's too far away from passing GA status. --Shruti14 t c s 18:25, 1 June 2008 (UTC)