Talk:A-1 Skyraider

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[edit] Dengler Escape from POW Camp Superfluous?

Someone added a paragraph to this article describing A-1 pilot Dieter Dengler's crash in Laos in 1966. They also included a sentence about his capture and escape from a POW camp. This last sentence was removed as being superfluous. While not directly related to the A-1, I would still regard the escape information as relevant to the article since it explains why Dengler's crash landing is notable (as opposed to all the other A-1 crash landings that occurred in Vietnam). Therefore, I propose the sentence be restored. Rather than get involved in an undo battle, I thought I would post my comment here and see what others think. Skeet Shooter (talk) 05:37, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't think any of the names listed in the section on crashes losses are that notable. However, in this case, the escape has nothing whatsover to do with the aircraft, and I don't see that it needs to be here. If they had escaped in an A-1, then it might be differnt! To be fair, I'll try to go through the rest of the names and remove the non-notable and/or unsourced ones too. Please remember that encyclopedia articles are summaries, and need to be focused on the actual subject as much as possible. The Dengler article is the proper place for the escape to be mentioned, but not here. IMHO. - BillCJ (talk) 05:50, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

The way the text currently reads, it may be better to delete the reference to Dengler entirely. Stating only that Dengler crash-landed his A-1 isn't very notable. Almost like stating Fisher landed his A-1 at A Shau without explaining it was a rescue for which he was awarded the Medal of Honor. In both cases, the full story is explained in the respective article about the person, but providing that extra sentence in the A-1 article helps the reader understand why the event was notable and worth exploring. Actually, another A-1 pilot did spot the nearly-dead Dengler and called in a rescue. Would that be an appropriate second sentence? I do agree that the original poster's description of the escape did not fit the tone of an encyclopedic article. Skeet Shooter (talk) 14:54, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cruise speed of 295 mph?

Come-on!!! No single-engine propeller-driven aircraft 'cruises' that fast. Non-pilots usually have completely wrong ideas about the 'real' speed of aircraft, and often confound VNE (Redline speed) with maximum speed, or 'real' cruise-speed with what is utterly possible to attain without blowing up your engine within five minutes.

But then again: Even Cessna, in its brochures, states cruise speed of their machines (Refuse to call them 'Aircraft') at 85% power (The latter in very small print) what someone can indeed do without blowing up the engine within the first five minutes. 65% power is realy the maximum advisable for continuous output if you do not desire to seriously compromise the MTBO of your engine. At those settings I always felt the urge to step out and push a bit when flying Cessnas.

One of the fastest cruising propeller-aircraft is the P-51 Mustang which manages almost 250 mph at low level and around 310 mph at best altitude. Surely a Skyraider (Though I must admit I've never even seen one) comes nowhere close to that.

For indication: here are some 'real' cruise-speeds of aircraft I really flew:

A 'middle-series' Cessna 150 (With the short dorsal fin) will do about 98 mph. at low level (Can't get that thing up high anyway as it climbs 500 ft/min at sea level).

A 172 (With the continental six-cylinder of 145 BHP) will do around 110 mph.

A DC 3 (With the Pratt & Whitney 'Double Wasp') will do 150 mph.(On a good day, but then again, only if it likes you, otherwise it 'll be more around 140). Crazy what you get to read about THAT aircraft's speed.

A Piper Arrow III will give you 135 mph. at sea-level and around 150 at 9000 ft. (It's best cruising-altitude for 65% power as it's not Turbo-charged). A French Robin DR 300-160 does a few miles more, but with only 160 BHP (The Arrow has 200), fixed gear and fixed propeller, but climbes twice as fast (1600 ft/min). The Arrows climb speed as stated by Piper in the flight manual to be 900 ft/min is surely only at full power and turns out to be more like 750 ft/min in real life.

An early Piper-Aztec will turn out 165-180 (Low-high) while a (Non-turbo) Aztec E can do 175-195.

And finally, probably the fastest-cruising propeller-aircraft of all time, a Connie (But then again, only the 1049), would turn out around 340 mph in its younger days, but the one I flew did a good 310 at 20.000 ft. ~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.246.157.208 (talk) 13:33, 28 May 2008 (UTC) 81.246.157.208 (talk) 13:38, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

295 mph. cruise-speed in a Skyraider: On the planet Zorg perhaps, but surely never here on earth! 200 (Like a Spitfire) seems a realistic figure for a 'Clean' aircraft. 81.246.157.208 (talk) 16:06, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Someone may have got cruise speed mixed up with Combat speed - [1] lists a Combat Speed of 256 knots for the A-1H and-J - which corresponds to the figure quoted for cruise speed in the article. [2] states a cruise speed of 240 mph for the A1E, while Swanborough and Bowers quotes 198 mph and 188 mph for the AD-2 and AD-7 respectively. The US Navy Standard Aircraft Characteristics for the AD-4 here] gives a cruise speed of between 177 and 206 knots, and for the AD-5 here as 200 - 205 knots.Nigel Ish (talk) 23:21, 7 June 2008 (UTC)