User talk:85.108.47.221

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On Battle of Manzikert, it looks like you are doing a wholesale rewrite and taking out large amounts of material. It might be better to discuss some of your changes on the talk page. Tom Harrison Talk 12:30, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

The article shows Quataert as a reference [13] for the previous quote so what I added is in essence of what he is saying. I agree with what you were trying to add to the article and it is still there. Please no further edit wars for both of us, I am sure we can spare time for more constructive edits on other articles.--85.108.47.221 15:29, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

First of all I'd like to know why you're not interested in registering a username? Someone who wants to contribute seriously has no excuse to remain anonymous, and his edits don't get the credibility they deserve. Secondly I should urge to read the WP:POLICY in details. There are very specific rules and guidelines in editing wikipedia. You could be 100% right about something, but as long as you don't provide sources to support it, it qualifies as POV or original research. You must always respect consensus and do not remove sourced information before discussion. Now, about those two articles in question, there have been many Turkish editors who tried to pass POV into the article, pretty much the same way you're doing. You have to realise that wikipedia is edited by an international crowd and refers to an international crowd, therefore your personal ethnic feelings cannot be taken into consideration. You need to provide concrete arguments before removing content (as you're doing in the Ottoman Empire). For example I believe and would like to say in Macedon, that ancient Macedonians were obviously a backwater Greek tribe who spoke a Hellenic dialect, but I have to put editor and scholarly consensus above my ethnic feelings. There's many people who tried to pass Turkish POV in the Ottoman Empire, but wikipedia's NPOV policy sooner or later prevails. The current version of the article contains an important citation which it was decided to stay like this by various experienced users, and I guarantee you that further edit-warring will only get you trouble. Your refusal of acknowledging a sourced paragraph is the most typical violation of NPOV e.g. in this case a modern Turkish editor who regards the Ottoman Empire the same state as Turkey, something which is not valid to the rest of the world. I think the current version of the article is neutral, informative and serves as the perfect epilogue to the section. If you have a source which disproves' the validity of the section in question, then you can present it in discussion and seek a solution through mediation. Otherwise there's not valid argument to ask for a compromise. Miskin 16:40, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

As for Battle of Manzikert, do you know any after battle where the Byzantine forces put up a significant resistance against Turks ever again? I think not, that's why I added that last sentence to the article, "and were never able to challenge Turks again in AsiaMinor" not for any POV reason. If you can tell me any later significant battles in Asia Minor between Turks and Byzantines, I'll leave it.--85.108.47.221 15:44, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Of course they did. A large part of western anatolia was recovered by the Greeks during the first crusade in the 11th century, where the Seljuk armies were defeated. Then the powers were balanced until Constantinople fell temporarily to the Latins, and the Greek Empire was weakened. Nevertheless, once again in the 14th century and during Mongol wars, the Greeks dominated for a short while in Greece and western Anatolia. Your specific edit was a very obvious Turkish POV. Miskin 16:40, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Getting an account

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