Talk:761st Tank Battalion (United States)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

MILHIST This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.

Contents

[edit] Cleanup

I'm glad this article was recently added. However, it needs some serious cleanup for flow, links, etc. I am going to start working on it. Beanbatch 19:36, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

In general, this is not the right article to document the entire history and issues of racial bigotry in the Army. The quotes did prove the point, but belong better in article such as Desegregation or African American history. Perhaps a general article on African American Soldiers should be started. There is History of African Americans in the Civil War, but we should cover more recent wars. The coverage of Jackie Robinson's story really shows this the best, I think. Beanbatch 21:48, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Found another good link African-Americans in the United States military before desegregation, will add a link there. Beanbatch 20:19, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
Thank you Bean, WikiDon 20:27, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Took out all superscripts for 761st. Really hard to read with these, the line spacing gets wacky. Beanbatch 21:48, 24 August 2005 (UTC)


Howdy,

  • 1) Thanks for spending some time with one of my babies.
  • 2) If I notice someone has spent as much time on an article as I have on this one, I ask first before making major changes.
  • 3) Unless you plan on, and even if you do, I don't like the changes to the section on the other battalions, I want to mention them here as well:
    • 758th Tank Battalion
    • 784th Tank Battalion
  • 4) I also want the Patton info in. It is important to put in what a senior leader of his stature had to say about colored men.
  • 5) The article and the references were "meant" to be in chronological order.
  • 6) If they entered combat October of 1944, and Patton made the observation in November, which was not prior to combat.

Please discuss. WikiDon 22:09, 24 August 2005 (UTC)


2) My apologies. It appeared to me that the article was fairly new, and had some seemingly randomly ordered and repetitive insertions recently. My main goal here was to try an organize the info / flow better. We can get back whatever we need to restore from the article's history list. It is NOT lost. 3) Since this article is titled U.S. 761st Tank Battalion, it should really focus on the 761st, but we can refer to them. I put them under "See also". Hopefully, someone will add articles for them down the road. However, I did restore some of the deleted content about one of the units. 4) I wanted to leave in the 2nd Patton speech, about "..I don't care what color you are..". However there were several problems with the section as it was:

  • He didn’t feel the same after Bastogne: the date on the quote was 02 November 1944, Bastogne was later, starting Dec 16th.
  • after watching the 761st conduct them selves in the field: this is inconsistent with the earlier combat date given, On 07 November 1944, with Patton, they entered into action.

These inconsistencies led me to not trust the context of the quote at all, so I removed it. It looked to me more like a pre-combat pep talk than something post-combat. However, I have attempted to restore Patton section, with the before and after quotes. Tell me what you think. It would be really good to have a date for the first quote, so the reader can tell when Patton was thinking that way. Can you get a date for it? 5) I liked the preWWII and postWWII sections. However, Jackie's section, which was a preWWII item, was not in there. Now it is, etc. I moved the new book to the top of the reference list, because this book and the movie are hot items. No big deal to me if you want to move it back. 6) Addressed above. They entered France via Omaha Beach in October, per the article, but did not see combat until 7 November, per the article. Did you like anything about the rework? Did not mean to offend anyone. Beanbatch 19:41, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Unit activated

We need some explantion in the first section on how this unit was formed, with so much bais in the military. Who pushed for it? Why did happen? Beanbatch 21:43, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

  • I believe that Lieutenant General Leslie J. McNair pushed hard for the unit. He started pushing at the beginning of the war, 1941, but it took him a long time to get them to combat. Oh, but you took that part OUT!

WikiDon 22:11, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

I saw that, but could not see the context. Will put back. Beanbatch 20:15, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] A couple of things

  • Ruben Rivers - if you have a good source, this guy should have his own article like Freddie Stowers. Not only did he earn The Medal, dying for his country in the process, but his family had to wait fifty years to get it. That's pretty notable! (It is also several other things, but this is a family encyclopedia, so I won't mention them).
  • Dramatizations: W.E.B. Griffin changes the names to protect innocent, but he does mention the contributions of black tankers in North Africa and Europe; in fact they play a prominent role in several of his novels. He has a recurring character, Capt. Phillip Sheridan Parker II (eventually rises to major) and his son, Phillip Sheridan Parker III. Grandfather Sgt. Moses Parker was a Buffalo soldier, and named the first Phillip Sheridan Parker after the famous general, under whom he served. Griffin bases a lot of his characters loosely on actual persons, so this could even reflect the careers of actual soldiers. I'll add some info about that when I get a chance.

--Jpbrenna 05:23, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

  • So I recently finished an entry for Ruben Rivers. Let me know what you think.Ken Albers 21:36, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Patton

I changed the Patton section as I felt it was misleading. The speech made to the battalion seems to simply reflect his desire to instill confidence in men on whom he knew his plans would in part rely on. The structure implied a Patton was a racist/changed his mind notion which was not at all the case. The quote about black soldiers lacking the intellect to be tankers was a reflection following the was (as noted). In fact the distinguished actions of the 761st did nothing to diffuse his racsim. I hope the current revision reflects this.

Ken Albers 20:00, 3 November 2005 (UTC)Kalbers


[edit] Fort Hood, Texas

Important to note that permanent monument was dedicated this year at Fort Hood, Texas. In attendance were several living legends from The 761st Tank Battalion. There are additional details that have been summarized and included. Invitation is extended for interested military historians to visit the monument. It serves as reminder of the very high cost of unheralded service.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 168.38.189.2 (talk • contribs) 06:51, 29 November 2005.

[edit] 761st TB Insignia

Sorry, but since the 761st Tank Battalion was NOT one of the Tank Battalions that were carved out of Armored Regiments during World War II, and it was not reorganized from an older unit of another branch, it did not get issued a Distinctive Unit Insignia, and only a small handful of Battalions have Shoulder Sleeve Insignia. I went looking for the graphic file you posted, and did not find it still on the server, which tells me that it has been removed by the Server Police. SSG Cornelius Seon (Retired) 01:27, 22 February 2006 (UTC)