Talk:7.5x55mm Schmidt Rubin

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[edit] Proper Name

There is some discussion on the talk:list of rifle cartridges page about the proper name for this cartridge. Does someone know definitively if this is the "7.5 x 55 Schmidt-Rubin" or the "7.5 mm Swiss" or something else even? Arthurrh 20:44, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Vihtavuori reloading tables lists it as 7.5x55 Swiss (GP31) --Boris Barowski 14:21, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
You mean GP11, right? I don't think I've ever seen it called GP31, and GP11 is what the boxes of Swiss surplus ammo are labelled as. 71.203.209.0 05:46, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
check for yourself: VT rifle reloading data 2006 --Boris Barowski 12:08, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Dunno where Vihtavouri is getting GP31 from, that's the only place I've seen it marked as such. Tengu99 19:23, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
See also Headspace gauges and 7.5x55 History (in German) though this one says it doesn't know why CIP calls it the GP31, which leads me to believe it's CIP making that designation. If anyone has a CIP reference, maybe they can look it up. Arthurrh 19:44, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Hmmm, perhaps they're giving it that designation to indicate that it's made for & safe for use in K-31s as opposed to S-R rifles that fired GP90? I'll ask around. Tengu99 06:58, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Sounds like a plan. I've ordered CIP information which should be here in a week or so. Feel free to remind me if I don't check back on it. Arthurrh 07:32, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
On http://www.lima-wiederladetechnik.de/Patronen/7,5x55-Schweiz.htm you can find an elaborate discussion on the confusing nomenclature in German. For those who have trouble reading German the essence of the discussions on that webpage. There where several versions produced of this cartridge. According to Swiss discussion participants in CIP nomenclature the cartridge is named 7,5 x 55 Swiss GP 31 or 7,5 x 55 Swiss, names nobody in Switzerland itself ever used. On the CIP's CD-ROM (Version 2003) only the 7,5 x 55 Swiss is mentioned. Swiss is no CIP member state and hence does not recognize any CIP rulings and proofed its military 7,5 x 55 rifles chambered in the most recent version of their service cartridge (GP11) at 150% of their Pmax piezo pressure. CIP rates the 7,5 x 55 Swiss (GP11) at 380 MPa. To add to the confusion the cartridge gets “Schmidt-Rubin” (Swiss rifle and cartridge designers) added in some countries. In Switzerland the contemporary cartridge is know as GP11 and under the name GP11 you can find the cartridge in the German version of Wikipedia. A Swiss GP31 cartridge does not exist, only a K31 carbine. Vihtavouri probably intended to indicate that 7,5 x 55 Swiss GP 31 is safe to used in the K31 carbine. 7.5 x 55 Swiss cartridges/GP11 (to take the 4 variaties into account) could be a nice compromise to get out of this nomenclature crisis. To make things more confusing look at Gw Pat.90 were you can read that the new GP90 (a Swiss 5.56 mm NATO variant)is the current Swiss service cartridge. Francis Flinch 12:02, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Copy-and-paste rename

I've fixed the copy-and-paste rename that was performed on this article. I am not endorsing one name or the other, but please do not perform any more copy-and-paste renames. Move articles using the "move" button. TomTheHand (talk) 19:52, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Origin the Schmidt Rubin part in the article name

Where does the Schmidt Rubin part in the article name come from, besides Rudolf Schmidt developed a rifle around 1898 that used Eduard Rubin's cartridge and hence created the Schmidt Rubin Model 1889 service rifle system for the Swiss Army?

I only could find a 7.5x55mm Swiss (7.5x55 Schmidt Rubin) article by Chuck Hawks. Mr. Hawks thinks these cartridges where always imported from Europe to the US. Maybe some US ammunition importer/seller once added the Schmidt Rubin part and others copied this, but I could not find any European source using the Schmidt Rubin addition. To my best knowledge in Switzerland the cartridge is know as GP90, GP 90/03, GP90/23 (for historic rifles) or GP11 (its more recent Swiss military designation) and in the rest of Europe it is know as 7,5 x 55 Swiss.

In the Schmidt-Rubin article it becomes clear Col. Schmidt refused to redesign the Model 1889 action. On November 3, 1892, Col. Vogelsang was assigned the task of designing three rifles with improved actions. This resulted in the Schmidt-Rubin Model 1896 rifle that replaced the Schmidt-Rubin 1889 Model rifle

With the introduction of the Model 1897 Kadet rifle the Swiss ceased adding Schmidt-Rubin to their newly designed rifle nomenclature. The Schmidt-Rubin addition only remained being used to designate a modernized variant of the Schmidt-Rubin 1896 rifle. Those Schmidt-Rubin 1896/11 rifles where adapted to fire GP11 cartridges. Source: The Schmidt-Rubin Series (elaborate article)

Francis Flinch (talk) 11:08, 30 November 2007 (UTC)