User talk:71.106.149.53

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Please do not erase things from Demographics of Taiwan. If you don't agree with something, give a reason or raise the issue on the discussion page. — Nrtm81 23:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

The chart is not propaganda. "Han Chinese" is basically anyone who identifies with Chinese culture and langauge. It isn't a "race". If Taiwanese don't speak Chinese or don't have ancestry from China then they can say they aren't Han Chinese. Maybe you're pushing the propaganda since the source comes from a Taiwan independence website which tends to be biased. — Nrtm81 06:29, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I requested page protection for Demographics of Taiwan... If you go around pushing POV in other articles you might get blocked from Wikipedia. I've already placed a notice on your activity. — Nrtm81 07:03, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I am so scared. You will be dealing with me for years to come. We have an organization that will be policing Wiki pages relating to Taiwan in the future. Any propaganda will be edited out. Seems you have a motive in wanting to have that chart there. Why not just leave controversial stuff out. You know as well as I know that Han Chinese means blood. Go look at the Han Chinese wiki page, and you will find that people are more comfortable using the term Tángrén (唐人, literally "the people of Tang") or Huaren (Simplified Chinese: 华人; Traditional Chinese: 華人; pinyin: huárén), derived from Zhonghua (中華), a literary name for China to refer to Chinese cultural affiliation. As far as I know, Han refers to race. So if this is controversial, I implore you to leave it out. Or create a chart that says Huaren (meaning people of Chinese Culture), but don't use the term Han because it is very misleading. - 71.106.149.53

I did not notice it was from an Independence website. I just googled it and found the article. You will even find a PDF version on the web as well. Also, did you notice the other article on aborigine was from the People's Daily -- communist paper. I don't care what source it is from, as long as the studies are backed up by scientific evidence. Clearly, thats what Wiki is for, to discover information what nobody knew before and bring it to their attention.

OK, you should have said so in the first place! Even Han Chinese article says it's a cultural ethnicity not about blood. How can 1.3 billion people be of one race? If 華人 or 唐人 is more neutral, you should've said so instead of ignoring my messages at the beginning and continuing to remove the image in question. If there's a problem, please raise the issue, especially if it's such a big one such as "Han Chinese" vs. "Hua ren"/"Tang ren" at Wikipedia:WikiProject China or Wikipedia:WikiProject Taiwan. I considered Han Chinese as meaning "Chinese" as a cultural identity. Just as Hoklo and Hakka are a language/cultural identity of Chinese but not necessarily blood. I'm going to raise this at the WikiProject China page. — Nrtm81 04:16, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I dunno if you can still see this but the article is now updated. I replaced the links of Han Chinese with Chinese people and uploaded a replacement image at Commons reflecting the change as well. Hopefully this is more neutral, though I cannot do anything about the usage of Han Chinese in the other articles such as Hakka and Hoklo people. But I've already raised this issue at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China.

Next time, instead of removing an image, please raise the issue on the discussion page. Removing an image makes it difficult for people to locate it especially if they aren't aware of the article page. Also, sorry about your block! I only asked to have the page semi-protected (i.e. anonymous users cannot edit the page). I didn't expect you to be blocked. If you are interested in Taiwan-related articles, please register so that you can work with other people who are already interested in developing Taiwan pages. Thanks. — Nrtm81 23:46, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for making the changes. Appreciate your consideration on this sensitive matter. However, by labelling all Taiwanese as Chinese, you are continuing the propaganda started by KMT that have indoctrinated the islands people for the past 50 years. If you could just use what is listed on the CIA World Factbook, that would be the best. There, they list Ethnic groups as follows: Taiwanese (including Hakka) 84%, mainland Chinese 14%, aborigine 2%. Here is the link if you want to see. https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/tw.html That is the most neutral position. Labelling Taiwanese as Chinese only plays into the hands of the mainland Chinese on Taiwan who desire reunification and the People's Republic of China who want to take over the island and expand their Chinese hegemony. Had the Japanese won World War II, most Taiwanese would probably be Japanese today. In fact, many Taiwanese before WWII were already speaking Japanese at home and had changed their surnames to Japanese. So it all depends on who the colonizers are. But as a native Taiwanese who speaks the language fluently, let me just say that linguistically, Taiwanese is so different from Mandarin that the speaker of one cannot comprehend the other. The difference is greater than that between Spanish and French, or English and German. So if language is a major part of culture, it is hard to make the case that Taiwanese are Chinese. Before the end of World War II, the majority of people in Taiwan did not speak Mandarin. They spoke Taiwanese. So their original ethnicity is Taiwanese, even though the KMT colonizers forced the population to learn and speak Chinese. I guess we will have more of this discussion in the future.

I moved the conversation over to Talk:Taiwanese people so that a wider audience can discuss this subject. If there is research to support that Taiwanese are not Chinese, then other people can probably help search for it. It's too controversial to claim something against what is generally accepted unless there are reliable sources to support it. — Nrtm81 01:54, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] User notice: temporary 3RR block

You have been temporarily blocked for violation of the three-revert rule. Please feel free to return after the block expires, but also please make an effort to discuss your changes further in the future.

The duration of the block is 31 hours. Here are the reverts in question. Nishkid64 14:35, 22 November 2006 (UTC)