User talk:68.47.81.164

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[edit] Regarding your edits to List of melodic death metal bands

What you are doing could be considered vandalism for four reasons:

  • this link you provided leads to an article, it is not a Wikipedia policy or guideline,
  • you keep inserting bands that are not melodic death metal and you are not heeding the disclaimers within the article itself to not add such bands,
  • you are removing descriptive statements from the list of which there is consensus to keep,
  • you have failed to discuss your edits in the articles talkpage even though they kept getting reverted --Leon Sword 00:50, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
the link you provided above leads to an article, it is not a Wikipedia policy or guideline
You're right, it is not wikipolicy, it is common knowledge.
you keep inserting bands that are not melodic death metal and you are not heeding the disclaimers within the article itself to not add such bands
Which band(s) have I added? Light This City? Melodic death metal is cited on their page; removing Light This City is POV-pushing.
you are removing descriptive statements from the list of which there is consensus to keep
I removed the word "career" and left both "early" and "late."
you have failed to discuss your edits in the articles talkpage even though they kept getting reverted
My edits were reverted by only one user.. 68.47.81.164 05:42, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Light This City is not a melodic death metal band, they are a metalcore band and the other editors of that article agree.
  • Don't shorten "late-career" to "late". That makes the caption more ambiguous.
  • It doesn't matter if your edits were only reverted by one user or ten, once you see that your edits keep getting reverted please make an effort to find out why they are being reverted instead of repeat editing an article with the same content everytime. What you were doing appeared to be vandalism, especially because you were not using edit summaries. I have witdrawn the vandalism warnings but please be more open to discuss your edits with other users when your edits are being reverted. --Leon Sword 22:26, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding your edits to Light This City

...Are NOT thrash metal. They are a metalcore band (with maybe some melodic death metal influences). The genre(s) you keep putting in are obviously erroneous for this band so stop reverting the article. --Danteferno 11:56, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Please stop adding melodic death metal to the article without citing a good reliable source. Instead of trying to "sneak" melodic death metal into the article by citing bogus sources, try to find a good reliable source that states that the band is a melodic death metal band or leave the article alone. Also do not make the assumption that melodic death metal is the same thing as death metal because they are actually two different genres. Furthermore, do not make the assumption that if a source says the band is influenced by so and so genres, that the band itself surely must play those genres. Trivium was influenced by Iron Maiden (a NWOBHM band) and Dream Theater (a progressive metal band), but they don't play those genres, they play a hybrid of metalcore and thrash metal. --Leon Sword 18:43, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Please do not add content without citing reliable sources, as you did to Light This City. Before making potentially controversial edits, it is recommended that you discuss them first on the article's talk page. I know that you are aware why certain sources can't be used (they're not reliable) and yet you keep repeat reverting without discussing your edits. I have warned you before of such behavior and how it is not going to get you anywhere. Either cite reliable sources or stop reverting without reason. --Leon Sword 00:23, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
allmusic, which you have removed several times, is a reliable source. Metal Review may or may not be reliable. If MR is reliable, that makes two sources you have removed. It's nothing but POV pushing.. 68.47.81.164 03:16, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Allmusic cannot be used because that site does not distinguish Death metal from Black metal from Melodeath from Blackened death metal from melodic black metal and so on. Allmusic just uses Death metal/Black metal for any band that remotely has any qualities of those genres but does not actually distinguish which genre the band is. How is it that you even think you can use that as a source? As for the Metal Review source it's very questionable because it's a review. I could go write a review right now on one of Light This City's albums saying that they sound like power metal combined with black metal and upload it to various websites, then I could add power metal and black metal to the article and cite the review. Do you think that's good? Certainly not. Reviews are terrible sources to use. --Leon Sword 01:36, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Melodic death metal and blackened death metal are death metal subgenres. Melodic black metal is a black metal subgenre. It doesn't matter; it is still black metal and/or death metal. And while it is true that death metal and black metal are one category, I do not see how this makes the site unreliable.

After looking over Metal Review, I see it is reliable. The website has a group of writers and a separate section for reader reviews. The reviews cited were written by staff, not readers. Metal Review is on level with The Gauntlet. 68.47.81.164 15:37, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WARNING

If you don't stop adding melodic metalcore back in to the metalcore article you will be reported and possibly blocked. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 18:09, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Why? You (and only you) are removing melodic metalcore simply because you do not believe it exists. 68.47.81.164 19:31, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Not true. There are quite a few of us who keep that page in order who are doubtful. Sources would be nice. --Wick3dd 20:00, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
It is extremely difficult to source genres, and I'm sure you know this. Older genres (such as melodic death metal) lack sources, and many questionable genres (e.g., blackened death metal) have Wikipedia articles. Should they be removed or nominated for deletion? Only seems fair... Navnløs claims, "metalcore evolved FROM melodeath" and bands "like At the Gates, or early In Flames...inspired/ influenced the metalcore movement in America," yet rock historians disagree. Piero Scaruffi said "the connection between hardcore and heavy-metal had been kept alive by New York's Biohazard" and "Hatebreed, from Connecticut, established metalcore as a major genre." 68.47.81.164 20:45, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I can find sources for all the "shady genres" you listed. Regardless of how hard it is, Wikipedia requires sources. Now I realize that most of the metal pages do not have sources. However, the metalcore page is currently undergoing some work to bring it up to par. Because of this, melodic metalcore needs sources. Please post in the metalcore discussion, as many suspect you of vandalism.--Wick3dd 21:14, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I only listed one genre (blackened death metal), but I have my doubts about a few others. Anyway, I'll try to find a few sources, but until then, I feel melodic metalcore should be kept--with an "unreferenced" tag, of course. 68.47.81.164 (talk) 21:31, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


You're not only wrong, but you need to learn how wikipedia works. Its is not I, but you that is instituting POV. I said I hate metalcore, I didn't put it in the article. You are not only pushing a pov, but you are wrong period. The other genres you mentioned actually can be sourced so you are either lying or dont know better. Blackened death metal is a real genre and can be easily sourced...melodic metalcore, however, is not a real genre. A lot of people already think your a vandal, so stop your POV, or you'll be reported/ blocked. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 00:07, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Let them think I'm a vandal. I've started several articles and categories, and often cite sources; anyone that claims I am a vandal has paid little attention. 68.47.81.164 (talk) 21:57, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] crust & d-beat

hey, i'm wondering what your criteria are for categorizing bands as crust? Caustic Christ, despite their ties to Aus-Rotten who could be classified as crust, don't sound anything like crust to me. they sound like poison idea more than anything - are poison idea crust? crust is heavy, metallic punk, usually with growled vocals, like destroy. caustic christ doesn't fit this description at all. i don't agree with the classification of a lot of the other bands you've edited lately either, but as far as i can see caustic christ is the only one where you've added the genre rather than just changing the link. Sokeripupu (talk) 07:49, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I think they have more of an '80s US sound with hints of d-beat (e.g., "Bloodsucking Fiends"), but I've seen them listed as crust on Web sites, such as aversionline.com and in Havoc Records' "info" for Lycanthropy, Can't Relate, and Caustic Christ. 68.47.81.164 (talk) 16:34, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
fair enough, genres are a fiddly business. as long as hardcore punk stays as well i have no issue. Sokeripupu (talk) 00:53, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I think it might be because of the bands they play and are associated with. Inhumer (talk) 01:35, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

i suppose, but genres should really be about sound, not scene. Sokeripupu (talk) 21:30, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mukilteo Fairies and grindcore

This band has been added to the list of grindcore groups. Indeed, they are described as such within the body of the article. I'm prepared to believe this if a reliable source is added. Unfortunately I struggling to find any sources about this band other than fansites or fanzines at all, let alone that claims they're a grind band. I'm not doubting they qualify as notable due to the AYSKUBTTOTD connection, but without something a bit more concrete we're going to have to remove them. Reverts without citation could be regarded as vandalism... I'm genuinely trying to locate some sources for this, but currently drawing a blank. Any ideas? Blackmetalbaz (talk) 19:32, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

The Blood Sisters' Mukilteo Fairies profile is the best I can do. With them being "queercore," it's near impossible to find a decent Web site. 68.47.81.164 (talk) 20:05, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, I saw that one. I appreciate your problem, as it's fairly obscure, but the only section on that page is headed as 'opinionating' which would negate its use as a source even if the website were otherwise appropriate (which it's not). Sorry. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 20:26, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Exhumed

While I'm at it you removed the grindcore tag from Exhumed (and possibly some other death/grind bands, I haven't checked yet). Wikipedia:Categorization FAQ quite clearly states that articles may, and indeed are often expected to reside in multiple categories. Death/grind as a sub/fusion genre of grindcore means that death/grind bands would be appropriate to include on death metal, grindcore and death/grind categories. Indeed 'grindcore' is specifically mentioned within the body of the Exhumed article (which I also note is ripped straight from their website and therefore needs re-writing :-)). Therefore there is no reason for the removal of this tag. For references I can cite the Exhumed official homepage and Myspace page, and the Relapse homepage. If you'd like more I'll trawl through other things as well if you like. Either way, further removal of the tag could once again be regarded as vandalism. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 19:56, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't know why I would have done that, but if I did, add it back. Anyway, I have no problem keeping the "grindcore groups" cat. on a deathgrind band's page, but I feel "death metal musical groups" should be added to all deathgrind pages with the "grindcore groups" tag. Adding one and not the other looks like POV pushing. 68.47.81.164 (talk) 20:05, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Agree with 100% on the adding 'death metal' thing. I'm all for inclusivity over here. I will start working through these now :-). Blackmetalbaz (talk) 20:14, 19 December 2007 (UTC)