User talk:68.239.79.82/Archive 1

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[edit] I am not yet an admin

(though my application is pending), but the ones who are will deal with it routinely in about 24 hours as they catch up to the backlog. If you can add any additional sources from a newspaper or otherwise, it would be perfectly reasonable for you to add them now and then remove the tag yourself, or send them to me and I can do so, even though not an admin. Otherwise let it vanish in its natural course. DGG 06:32, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, I don't really care if that expired prod gets deleted or not ... BTW, sorry for the premature congratulations on your RFA ... I just assumed it was over by now based on the last time I looked at it, so your wiki-id was at the top of my list for a ping to an admin. —68.239.79.82 08:13, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
So, when it's all said and done, will you ping me on this User Talk page just to keep up the audit trail? :-)
BTW, I've been using that User Talk:72.75.73.158 as my sandbox for some essays I want to submit to WP:NPP for advice to newbies. Happy Editing! —68.239.79.82 10:21, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
Speaking of the 72.75 Talk page, some single-purpose anon just put a {{db-nouser}} on User:72.75.73.158 ... would that be considered vandalism? —68.239.79.82 10:52, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Civility

Hi 68,

I'm not sure what's going on, but please remain civil at all times. Firsfron of Ronchester 21:28, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Thnx for the quick reply ... it should play itself out at User talk:Laaabaseball#WP:BITE ... BTW, the reason I pinged you was your involvement in the original snafu, i.e., it all happened So Quickly, and there was so little communication ... I just wanted to make sure that at least one admin was aware of the Talk page blanking and multiple Wiki-id usage by the author.
And thnx for the clone message at my previous anon Talk page, although I doubt when I'll ever see that IP again ... Happy Editing! —68.239.79.82 21:42, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
68.239.79.82, I think perhaps the best way to approach this situation would have been to explain as to why you were restoring the notice on the user's talk page. According to WP:USER, they had the right to delete the message, and I guess it would have been best to let the user know of policy. With new users, you're supposed to anticipate that they have no prior knowledge of Wikipedia policy, and you must teach them how everything works. Perhaps, that would be the best way to handle such situations in the future. Don't get too trigger happy with the "undo" button, since that can provide for a negative reaction from the other user. Nishkid64 (talk) 22:57, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Seconding Nishkid here, don't bite the noobs. :) Remember, they have no knowledge of Wikipedia or any policies, so you can facilitate their learning process by kindly explaining to them why you're doing something. Link to the relevant policy. And avoid a confrontation if at all possible. Best, Firsfron of Ronchester 00:41, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Please see User talk:68.239.79.82/Warn-bio and comment ... by using the stencils on that page and following the protocol, this kind of thing should not happen ... at worst, some admin deletes the article while another is leaving the welcome and warning on the author's Talk page ... at best, Some Other User merely has to delete one line in order to change a CSD into a PROD, because it's all explained on the Discussion page.
Best of all, no watchlist is needed, so an editor can just MOVE ON ... "Flag it, tag it, and forget it!" —68.239.79.82 05:36, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding that talkheader subpage

Just a quick note, User talk:68.239.79.82/Talkheader is (accidentally?) included in several maintenance categories, including speedy deletion and prod. Not terribly urgent, but something you may want to look at. :) If all else fails, wrapping the whole page (or a few snippets) in <nowiki> tags may do the trick. – Luna Santin (talk) 04:15, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

My bad ... that's my "Mother of all CSD & warning template examples" sandbox page, but I should be done with it in 24 hours ... I'm using it to help me create CSD-specific stencil pages, like User talk:68.239.79.82/Warn-bio ... watch my Works in progress list for completed subpages ... please let me know about any WP:BITE concerns with the language before I start using them in WP:NPP mode. —68.239.79.82 05:23, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Well, I did my first test of the Warn-bio boilerplates while on New pages patrol ... I picked one that Some Other Editor had already tagged, but the author had previous edits and a virgin Talk page ...
  • Bookboy23 (talk · contribs) - 1st test of new DB-BIO protocol (Jeff Ladouceur)
It takes a Pretty Long Time (can't do a dozen in an hour this way), but as User Talk:Bookboy23 demonstrates, "Better to be safe than sorry" ... none of the other involved parties have left any messages (yet), nor are they obliged to, even as a courtesy ... Bookboy23 may never come back, but if they had simply missed the window and the instigating editor's CSD had led to deletion (instead of Bookboy23 following the protocol and blanking the page), at least they won't feel like they've been fragged by the Senior Partners.
Happy Editing! —68.239.79.82 07:08, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] May 2007

Welcome to Wikipedia. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia. One or more of your recent edits, such as the one you made to User:Lafong/Sandbox, have been considered unhelpful or unconstructive and have been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Esmeralda Ortega 00:28, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

If this is a shared IP address, and you didn't make the edit, consider creating an account for yourself so you can avoid further irrelevant notices.
I have already responded to Esmeralda Ortega about this "vandalism" on the talk page for Lafong (talk · contribs) ... obviously we disagree on our definitions of "unhelpful or unconstructive".
As for creating an account, Esmeralda Ortega (talk · contribs) must not have read not a topic for conversation, which is clearly posted as the first entry on this Talk page. —68.239.79.82 01:32, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
BTW, what is your relationship to Sd31415 (talk · contribs) ...
I thought I was responding to one, but the posts appear on the Talk page for the other ... I'm tres confused, but am reluctant to make any allegations of sockpuppetry at this time, since I really don't care and I would rather just MOVE ON. —68.239.79.82 02:03, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] CSD templates

I went ahead and expanded the CSD templates in your subpage using Special:ExpandTemplates. That way, you're able to view the text and even see the formatting, but the categories have been removed and the pages will no longer be listed where they shouldn't be. Cheers. --MZMcBride 04:30, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Kewl tool! And thanks beau coup for the page cleanup ... I got distracted by a feline emergency and forgot to restore the <nowiki> tags. <Sigh!> Please see /Warn-nocontext for an example of the protocol/boilerplates I'm creating. —68.239.79.82 05:09, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dialog with User:Timhoad re: King Apparel

"Lipstick on a pig," wherein an author refuses to Let It Go and keeps recreating the same WP:VSCA article ... these are the principals involved:

[edit] User talk:Timhoad#New references for the article

thanks for your information, i'll take that all on board. What does actually baffle me is how companies such as fenchurch clothing and LRG clothing can have valid wikipedia insertions, when they are essentially conducting the same practice as we do, with little or no difference at all?!!

It would be useful if you could give me an insight into that.

cheers Timhoad (talk · contribs) 18:07, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

In the case of LRG clothing, that article has been around for over a year and dozens of editors have worked on it ... it's certainly more encyclopedic than WP:VSCA, and I have no problems with it after a casual glance.
OTOH, Fenchurch (clothing) has probably survived this long only because of the {{fashion-stub}} tag (which might have saved King apparel from speedy deletion, BTW), but I'll target it as a test case for for my Warn-inc protocol, which I will start working on immediately. :-)
Here's a piece of advice for you, Grasshopper ... when you leave messages, please include wikilinks so that people do not have to search for articles under discussion (e.g., "Fenchurch (clothing)" instead of "fenchurch clothing") ... a link back to the origin of the conversation is also a "polite" thing to do.
And like I said, first try uploading your fledgling article into User space as User talk:Timhoad/King Apparel (where it will be safe from the wrath of the Senior Partners), and then ask Some Other Editor to look at it before you post it in Article space (where it will become Fair Game for members of new pages patrol and Counter Vandalism Unit.)
Happy Editing! —68.239.79.82 19:18, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] article has been restored

I have restored the article and moved it to King Apparel. Please make any corrections to the article so it doesn't read like an advertisement. Also, you might want to see the corrections I made to the page so that it complies with WP:MOS. All Wikipedia pages need to comply with this policy. Nishkid64 (talk) 20:12, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I just took a look at the history, and see that I did the original CSD on this version @ 13:57, 4 May 2007 as 72.75.73.158 (talk · contribs) ... the immediate red flag that kept me from going any further was this:
EXTERNAL LINKS
Can you say, "WP:Vanispamcruftisement?" ... what else is an editor to think but,

"This article lacks WP:A to satisfy WP:CORP ... nothing but WP:COI (subject's own website) and WP:SPAM (their MySpace site) ... no WP:RS sources of WP:N ... looks like a candidate for speedy deletion ... (CSD-A7) - Unremarkable people, groups, companies and websites."

And thus the wheel is set in motion.
The next errors in judgment came when the author Timhoad (talk · contribs) reverted the {{db-inc}} without an edit summary, or comment on the Discussion page, and I restored the CSD tag, but did not warn the author of the WP:3RR consequences.
The article was deleted ... and restored and speedy deleted a second time ... and a third:
  • 13:55, 4 May 2007 Timhoad (talk · contribs) (←Created page with 'KING APPAREL London based streetwear brand. Founded by former pro snowboarder/skateboarder Tim Hoad and long time friend and graphic designer Paul Linton, w...')
  • 13:57, 4 May 2007 72.75.73.158 (talk · contribs) ({{db-inc}})
  • ... speedy deleted
  • 15:41, 4 May 2007 Timhoad (talk · contribs) (←Created page with 'thumb {| class="wikitable" KING APPAREL London based streetwear brand. Founded in 2002 by former pro snowboarder/skateboarder Tim Hoa...')
  • 15:46, 4 May 2007 Dep. Garcia (talk · contribs) ({{db-corp}})
  • ... speedy deleted
  • 15:55, 4 May 2007 Wildthing61476 (talk · contribs) (Requesting speedy deletion (CSD a7)." using TW")
  • ... speedy deleted
  • 23:15, 10 May 2007 Timhoad (talk · contribs) (←Created page with 'thumb {| class="wikitable" KING APPAREL ¶ London based streetwear brand. Founded in 2002 by former pro snowboarder/skateboarder Tim ...')
  • ... speedy deleted & then restored ... again
  • 20:11, 14 May 2007 Nishkid64 (talk · contribs) (moved King apparel to King Apparel)
So that's the history ... OTOH, I don't really have any complaints with the current (14 May) version as tweaked by Nishkid64, and if I saw it today during WP:NPP, I would MOVE ON.
Having said that, I think that the use of my draft protocols would have prevented this regretable incident ... but there is no Wikipedia "minimum knowledge of How We Do Things" to create an article ... the paradigm says, "Be bold!" and we learn by doing, which means sometimes we make mistakes, and sometimes we have to "reinforce the learning experience" in painful ways.
Aw, Belgium, man - Belgium! ... I spoke Too Soon ... I clicked that second External link, and it's Just Another Blog ... I have changed:
into:
And then I thought to myself, "Self, why bother? That's not a WP:RS to WP:V the WP:N of anything!" ... IMHO, this kind of WikiGnome formatting activity would be about as helpful as putting lipstick on a pig ... <Heavy Sigh!>
Well, that's all I have time to say right now. —68.239.79.82 04:59, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Dialog with User:Onofre Bouvila re: Domingo Elizondo

This is an example of a worthy stub that was zapped a little Too Quickly ... these are the principals involved:

[edit] Wikireaucracy

Sorry but I have read what you wrote in my talk page ... and man, and I don't understand it much. You've talked to me about all this stuff of speedy deletion and so on, but I don't get the general idea. What did you want to tell me? Say me in a single sentence, and I will try to assume it.
Reading your talk page is like reading a programming code that I do not understand at all.
Thanks. Onofre Bouvila (talk · contribs) 23:20, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

In a nutshell: You created a "stub" of an article that got tagged for a speedy delete, perhaps Too Soon ... it led to an exchange with Teh tennisman (talk · contribs) ... you have deleted it from your Talk page, but I have reconstructed it for reference purposes ... anyway, the incident came up in my communications with Teh tennisman about an unrelated matter, and I said, "Yeah, that kind of thing happens a lot ... I'm trying to do something to keep it from happening Too Often."
Your page for Domingo Elizondo would not be tagged by new pages patrol in it's current state, so the speedy delete process may have worked Too Quickly in your case ... I'm developing some protocols to try provide more checks and balances on the process.
I thought that as an editor who had been the "victim" of an overzealous new pages patrol tag and revert, that your input to the process of developing a new protocol would be helpful ... but, if it's a bit over your head, then that was my error ... if nothing else, it demonstrates that I need to develop a "kindergarten" version for nuggets ... I've been a "bit pusher" (what we used to call computer programmers back in the twentieth century) for over three decades now, and as a pioneering mercenary in the Information Revolution, I tend to forget just how green nuggets can be. :-)
Sometimes I need to get perspective ... I was using a desktop computer with a mouse and doing copy&paste edits in a GUI environment in 1976 (we didn't start calling it a WIMP interface until 1980) ... that was eight years before the Macintosh introduced the desktop paradigm to the masses in a commercial during the 1984 Super Bowl, so I ended up giving the salesmen a demo in the store, even though I'd never used one before.
But there are nuggets out there trying to create articles on Wikipedia who still don't know how to copy&paste, or the difference between the displayed text and the wikitext that is only visible in the edit window, and which one needs to be copied into their sandbox ... or even WTF a "sandbox" is, or how to create and use one.

"It's so simple, a caveman can do it" ... sure, as easy as making fire without matches or a Zippo ... but if you've never done it before, you may feel like a caveman, and not in a Good Way.

I was an Eagle Scout, and sometimes I forget that the vast majority of people using Wikipedia have never made fire from scratch (and certainly have never used fire to cut metal), so there's an unfathomable gulf of knowledge and experience that I forget about ... simply because someone can use a computer to access Wikipedia, I make some assumptions about their level of computer literacy that are totally unjustified ... and that is entirely my mistake, one that I will try not to repeat very often.
So, if what I'm saying is all Greek to you, then just ignore it and MOVE ON ... I won't bother you again until I have something that is easier for you to understand, and then I would appreciate your feedback.
Happy Editing! —68.239.79.82 05:18, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image:GertrudeBarrowsBennett.jpg

Hello, 68.239.79.82. An automated process has found and removed an image or media file tagged as nonfree media, and thus is being used under fair use that was in your userspace. The image (Image:GertrudeBarrowsBennett.jpg) was found at the following location: User talk:68.239.79.82/Gertrude Barrows Bennett. This image or media was attempted to be removed per criterion number 9 of our non-free content policy. The image or media was replaced with Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg , so your formatting of your userpage should be fine. Please find a free image or media to replace it with, and or remove the image from your userspace. User:Gnome (Bot)-talk 05:23, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Tee-hee! I cloned a copy of Gertrude Barrows Bennett into a sandbox so that I could work on beau coup citation tags without getting into conflicts with Some Other Editor ... then I got distracted by another project, and plumb forgot about it.
Thnx fer the ping, Gnome (Bot) ... I'll do my WikiGnome thing, replace the original, and delete the sandbox ASAP ... as in right after I feed the cat. :-) —68.239.79.82 06:04, 16 May 2007 (UTC)