User talk:68.179.176.9

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Revert again, and you'll get blocked. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 02:09, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spanish Empire

Hello, I agree with your point on the map. However, in order to win the argument you must try to tone down your comments. Putting things like "Haha, pathetic" won't do anything for your cause. Please try to be civil. Greetings, --Victor12 14:10, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Great! As for the discussion, give it a couple of days. If it becomes deadlocked by then, we can ask for a requests for comment. There are several other instances at Wikipedia for mediation (see Wikipedia:Resolving disputes) but the best way to solve problems is to reach an agreement between editors. --Victor12 14:50, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm sure he'll answer, don't worry. In any case nobody owns articles in Wikipedia, consensus is reached by interested editors in the talk page. As for not being registered, in Wikipedia you have the same rights as everybody else: registered users, administrators or whatever; after all this is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit. --Victor12 15:49, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
I think the problem with maps is that most historians separate the Spanish and Portuguese Empires because Portugal was only ruled by Spanish monarchs for sixty years. Maybe you can find such maps on books about Phillip III who inherited Portugal and kept it through out his reign. Besides looking for maps we should be looking for definitions of the Spanish Empire. I'd bet most historians define it as the dominions of the Spanish kings and that certainly includes Portugal. I'll try to help as soon as I can, but I'm currently swamped with work. I'll let you know when I have new info. --Victor12 17:01, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
Great job! I'm going to the library on Monday for definitions on the Spanish Empire and hopefully some more maps. Greetings, --Victor12 22:41, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
I know. I think the same way. Getting Portugal included in the map seems a step forward. Then the contradiction of why Portugal and not its colonies becomes apparent. In the end we'll get a better map. :-) Greetings, --Victor12 17:25, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Your Proposal

In your own words, "If Portugal, the base of the empire, is included, why aren't its territories? Rather simple and easy to argue I think" - even if you promise not to, someone else will try, and I don't want to get embroiled in another argument like this one. I'd go for a two-colour map like I proposed, not a one-colour one though. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 11:00, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

What I'm more concerned is about your misrepresentation on the talk page about the maps you uncovered. You wrote: Map 4: Map of Europe includng Portugal as part of the Spanish empire. Page 56, The History of Spain, by Peter Pierson.. Well, I actually have a copy of this book, and I have to say you have totally misquoted the legend. It does not say "Spanish empire", it just says "Spanish Habsburgs", and furthermore, the border between Spain and Portugal is demarcated in bold, and the shading of Portugal is different to that of Spain. So now I wonder about the truth of what you say with the other maps, since I cannot verify them. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 00:07, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Actually there is a very big difference. "Spanish Hapsburgs ... is synonymous to the Spanish empire" - quite apart from being the crux of our discussion and a very big assumption on your part that this is in fact so, I know you are aware that the idea Portugal was part of the Spanish Empire is a controversial one, especially for some Portuguese. I doubt you'll find any Portuguese that deny Portugal was ruled by Spanish Habsburgs though. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 02:16, 5 October 2007 (UTC)